1911 Fans Celebrate, Marine Corps adopts a .45 again.............
- Thread starter Acera
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a true american right there i trust that there are others out there but others are like skinny women they are ok but i need meat on my bones besides iffin ya pistol whip some one do it with class. live or die the 1911 will always be my side arm
Then why did we move away from horses?
Looks don't matter when you're buying a combat arm. Reliability, effectiveness and accuracy do.
I love how people like to throw around their Google knowledge of what is or is not carried by particular super operator elite ninjas. Quite frankly, don't make that stuff up here, I'm tired of seeing it. A majority of people on this board do not have any actual first hand knowledge, or knowledge from an actual reliable, vetted source on who is carrying what in SF, elite SMU's, etc. We're all guilty of it to some degree at some point or another, but we should demand more of ourselves in putting accurate info out there if we have anything of value to add to a discussion. Unless you personally know someone in or that formerly was in (and is vetted) a tier 1 SMU, I don't want to see any more claims of that thrown around. The majority of claims I've seen here and elsewhere from people talking about how commonly found the 1911 is with SOF units in general and SF/SMU's almost always seem to fall under this description. Check your sources, check your facts. The few reliable, vetted sources I've seen seem to state otherwise on the 1911 platform being all that common anymore in SOF usage short of MARSOC. Larry Vickers to name one.
There are also a whole lot of anecdotal statements and comparisons being made here. Again, stick to the facts. "Your buddy used this in the 'nam" or "I shot this for a few hundred rounds then carried it and never used it for years" are not valid arguments that a given platform is somehow great for issue to a military SOF. Stick to the facts.
There are also a whole lot of anecdotal statements and comparisons being made here. Again, stick to the facts. "Your buddy used this in the 'nam" or "I shot this for a few hundred rounds then carried it and never used it for years" are not valid arguments that a given platform is somehow great for issue to a military SOF. Stick to the facts.
You know one of my sources.
He may have been out for a while, but he's still got sources of his own (like his old medic who became a team sergeant and is still in), and keeps up on some stuff.Excellent questions and responses. While the pistol is a purely last resort/defensive battlefield weapon for the vast majority of conventional, and some spec ops forces (e.g. Rangers), and therefore capacity is a major consideration, there is one caveat: The most elite spec ops units train exhaustively for CQB (room clearing, hostage rescue, etc), and often that involves the takedown of a very small space where the pistol is the primary offensive weapon (I'm referrring to Delta & ST6 in particular, but the other SEAL teams and Army SF (Green Berets) train for those types of direct action as well). In those scenarios, especially the more surgical strikes, the operator chooses the weapon(s) he feels gives him the greatest advantage in target acquisition and accuracy. If that weapon is a single stack 1911, and it at least sometimes is (particularly for Delta, although I've heard that's been slowly changing over the years), then that's what he packs. There are also excellent 10 round mags on the market and are used by some spec operators as well as civilian tac units.
With that in mind I think there is a place in the military for the 1911, but a very specialized place. As much as I love my 1911's and carry them more than any other platform, I have to agree with stalker19 in general terms. I was pretty ambivalent toward the M9 (and the 9mm) while in uniform, and was always looking for an alternative. The 1911 didn't make sense for me at the time, IMO, based on the mission profiles involved, and the excellent combat .45's that are in abundance today were not around in the late 80's/early 90's (or hadn't been fully vetted). Had I stayed in the military I'd no doubt have ultimately ditched the M9 for, most likely, a G21, and then switched to the FNP .45 (I own the Tactical version and it is absolutely outstanding). I am very happy, though, to see the .45 gaining more prominence in the DoD, particularly now that there are many .45's available with excellent capacity.
Guys, like it or not - the 1911 is a time-proven battle weapon of not inconsequential ability. What many of you fail to remember is that where the Geneva Convention is observed (by US Forces), "hardball" is about all they can use. The impact and wound channel of a FMJ .45 is gonna be a lot more impressive than that of the 9mm - and in the hands of a marksman, he IS gonna put it where he wants it, and then it's up to the bullet to deliver the most devastating damage possible.
Less than a tenth of an inch diameter difference isn't going to make a dramatic difference in effectiveness.
All true, however, my concern would be with the frame cracking exhibited by the contract winner in this case. I'm being serious and asking if that concerns those of you that know and love this platform.
Please show me the documented proof of a cracked frame...additionally, bear in mind that everything you hear on the 'net ain't always true.
Mike, that tenth of an inch may not sound like much....until it's about doubled in mass and punchin' through YOUR favorite body part!
Mike, that tenth of an inch may not sound like much....until it's about doubled in mass and punchin' through YOUR favorite body part!
It wasn't that big of a deal to the military when they awarded Beretta their contract...
Yep - mah bad....
My favorite lines from the TV show "The Unit" (written by Eric Haney, the first CSM of Delta):
Working with a female undercover operative, a Unit operator asks, after seeing her draw her weapon: "You carry a .45, not a 9mm?". Her response: "Which would you rather get shot with?"
Upon initiation to The Unit, a new operator is shown a cabinet full of pistols and told to choose one for personal carry. When he picks up a 9mm, a seasoned Unit operator remarks to him "We carry these weapons to kill people, not hurt their feelings."
I'll stick with my .45's.
Working with a female undercover operative, a Unit operator asks, after seeing her draw her weapon: "You carry a .45, not a 9mm?". Her response: "Which would you rather get shot with?"
Upon initiation to The Unit, a new operator is shown a cabinet full of pistols and told to choose one for personal carry. When he picks up a 9mm, a seasoned Unit operator remarks to him "We carry these weapons to kill people, not hurt their feelings."
I'll stick with my .45's.
