Will Switchblades be Legalized in Texas?

[matefrio]

macshooter, you're a bit naive when it comes to law.

 

[macshooter]

How so?

 

[London]

I have seen caltrop sold at gun shows. Had no idea they were illegal.

Pretty pointless legislation considering the caltrops for sale at gunshows are too short to even go through a decent running shoe, let a lone someone's tire. If you want a good one you'll have to make it yourself.

 

[Bithabus]

On what authority? Your personal definition? How for that matter is antique defined, without a specific age? If that is important then why was it left out of the statute definitions, which are very specific in terms of defining what is a switchblade?

Consider the purpose of the exception. It's sole purpose is to ALLOW KNIFE COLLECTORS TO POSSESS A SWITCHBLADE LEGALLY. That is why it was written. If the idea was to only allow "antique" switchblades, then they would have only used the word "antique" and defined what constitutes an "antique" by law. They have left both terms undefined. It seems clear the intent of the law was to allow collectors to own a switchblade as part of a collection (ie. in your home) and not allow them to be carried around.

The autos you bought from Blade HQ are not curios. The reality is that auto knives are bought and sold all the time in Texas in violation of 46.05, but LE generally chooses to exercise discretion. As you said getting caught carrying one on the street might push the limits of that discretion.

 

[txinvestigator]

On what authority? Your personal definition? How for that matter is antique defined, without a specific age? If that is important then why was it left out of the statute definitions, which are very specific in terms of defining what is a switchblade?

Consider the purpose of the exception. It's sole purpose is to ALLOW KNIFE COLLECTORS TO POSSESS A SWITCHBLADE LEGALLY. That is why it was written. If the idea was to only allow "antique" switchblades, then they would have only used the word "antique" and defined what constitutes an "antique" by law. They have left both terms undefined. It seems clear the intent of the law was to allow collectors to own a switchblade as part of a collection (ie. in your home) and not allow them to be carried around.

Have you bothered to read the definition of curio? If the intent was as you say the legislature could have simply exempted collectors. In law, when the code does not define a word one looks to the dictionary definition. A brand new benchmade switchblade is not a curio.

I also find it funny you question MY belief, based on training, education and experience, while making statements about intent and purpose as though you have some definitive knowledge about the subject.

 

[Bithabus]

I could not agree more. And while we are at it, let's get 2, 3 and 4 changed to an exception if possession is pursuant to the NFA.

I am going to bring this up to TSRA for next session, now that silencers are going to be more common in hunting.

Seems silly you can legally hunt with a suppressed SBR, and also be legally arrested for hunting with a suppressed AR.

This is a good strategy. Changing to exception instead of outright repeal would be easier to push through, I bet.

 

[macshooter]

The autos you bought from Blade HQ are not curios. The reality is that auto knives are bought and sold all the time in Texas in violation of 46.05, but LE generally chooses to exercise discretion. As you said getting caught carrying one on the street might push the limits of that discretion.

I think you are spot on about police discretion. But I think the definition of curio is open to challenge, since it is not defined in the statute. A judge would have to impose an arbitrary definition of the word to convict someone, since the law says nothing about what is and what is not a "curio", or an "antique" for that matter...

 

[Bithabus]

I think you are spot on about police discretion. But I think the definition of curio is open to challenge, since it is not defined in the statute. A judge would have to impose an arbitrary definition of the word to convict someone, since the law says nothing about what is and what is not a "curio", or an "antique" for that matter...

Actually, curio or relic status is an affirmative defense. Which means the defendant has to prove his knife (which was likely mass produced a few months ago in a factory) is an antique or curio. Microtechs and Benchmades et al are nice knives but they are not unique or even rare. For a better understanding of what a "curio" would be, I think it is helpful to look at Federal firearms law. Most of 46.05 is ripped off from Federal firearms law anyway.

 

[txinvestigator]

I think you are spot on about police discretion. But I think the definition of curio is open to challenge, since it is not defined in the statute. A judge would have to impose an arbitrary definition of the word to convict someone, since the law says nothing about what is and what is not a "curio", or an "antique" for that matter...

When a term is not defined in law, then a judge will look at the dictionary definition. Go to merriam webster and look up the definition of curio.

This is not difficult. Good grief.

 

[macshooter]

Have you bothered to read the definition of curio? If the intent was as you say the legislature could have simply exempted collectors. In law, when the code does not define a word one looks to the dictionary definition. A brand new benchmade switchblade is not a curio.

I also find it funny you question MY belief, based on training, education and experience, while making statements about intent and purpose as though you have some definitive knowledge about the subject.

Don't take it personally, I'm not trying to insult you, just asking questions. It's not enough to say that something is not a curio based on an just an opinion. Is there any case law on this?

Ok, So we take the definition: something (as a decorative object) considered novel, rare, or bizarre.

You could argue that a switchblade by it's nature is novel, or that your particular switchblade is decorative (suppose you put some art on it and display in your living room) or has a unique or bizarre design that makes it collectable to you as a curio. You can say any of that about a new knife. Or you could look at some other definitions from other dictionaries.

Not trying to start a flame war here. Just asking questions.

 

[Bithabus]

Don't take it personally, I'm trying to insult you, just asking questions. It's not enough to say that something is not a curio based on an just an opinion. Is there any case law on this?

Ok, So we take the definition: something (as a decorative object) considered novel, rare, or bizarre.

You could argue that a switchblade by it's nature is novel, or that your particular switchblade is decorative (suppose you put some art on it and display in your living room) or has a unique or bizarre design that makes it collectable to you as a curio. You can say any of that about a new knife. Or you could look at some other definitions from other dictionaries.

Not trying to start a flame war here. Just asking questions.

Curios don't have to be old, but they do have to be curios.

 

[macshooter]

Actually, curio or relic status is an affirmative defense. Which means the defendant has to prove his knife (which was likely mass produced a few months ago in a factory) is an antique or curio. Microtechs and Benchmades et al are nice knives but they are not unique or even rare. For a better understanding of what a "curio" would be, I think it is helpful to look at Federal firearms law. Most of 46.05 is ripped off from Federal firearms law anyway.

Yeah under federal law, (or ATF ruling) it's defined as 50 years old. That's pretty cut and dried. I can see a case against curio being made as you say, a new mass produced knife is not special enough to qualify. But what about a decorated one? Or a special run series, 1 of a 100 or something?

And at what point does my bench made become an antique? Whenever a judge says it's old enough?

 

[TheDan]

[h=2]cu·ri·o[/h] 

 /ˈkyʊəriˌoʊ/ Show Spelled[kyoor-ee-oh] Show IPA
noun, plural cu·ri·os. any unusual article, object of art, etc., valued as a curiosity.


So since auto knives are illegal in Texas, it is unusual to have one. Self fulfilling requirement?

 

[Bithabus]

Yeah under federal law, (or ATF ruling) it's defined as 50 years old.

No, those are relics.

 

[macshooter]

No, those are relics.

Or something the ATF HAS SPECIFICALLY LISTED IN THE C&R HANDBOOK AS A CURIO. See where I am going with this?

 

[txinvestigator]

Federal definitions are irrelevant to staye law.

Other than that, anything else I write would just be redundant.

 

[Bithabus]

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Subpart B—Definitions



§ 478.11 Meaning of terms.



Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

 

[Bithabus]

Federal definitions are irrelevant to staye law.

It helps to clarify the issue of "what is a curio" IMO.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Bottom line is that they should be legal. It's dumb that assisted folders and fixed blades are legal to carry but switchblades aren't. We just need to push to get it changed in 2013. THAT'S WHY PRIMARY ELECTIONS ARE SO IMPORTANT. Go figure out who's running in your area.

Having had switch blades before (curio type ) they're not that big of a deal. Other than the "cool" factor of popping it open, I'd rather have a fixed blade on me anyway. i.e. - Not worth the legal battle to get caught with one.

 

[macshooter]

Bottom line, if there is no case law on someone being convicted of possession of a new(ish) switchblade that was a part of a knife collection inside their home, this is all just speculation. Just thinking of ways you could argue it in court.