Which auto-reset target?

[benenglish]

I'd like to buy an auto-reset steel target. For certain types of shooting that I do, it would be ideal practice. I need something that is portable, durable, and can be fitted with a tall "lollipop" to give me a round target to shoot at. Targets that can only be equipped with a head-and-shoulders silhouette are unsuitable. Portability is also important since I can't leave it at my club.

Who makes them and which do you recommend? In my research, I've only turned up three portable units.

Everybody knows about LaRue ( LaRue Tactical Sniper Target RTG1 | LaRue Tactical ). I see three problems with the LaRue.

• It's expensive.
• It's reported to break if it gets shot while it's resetting. If true, that's a fatal design flaw.
• LaRue stopped selling them to "civilians" some years ago.

That last point rules out the LaRue.

There are the various ATS targets, like the ST-71 ( ST-71 Heavy Duty Power Target Lifter by Advanced Training Systems ).

• On the plus side -
  • There's an online order page, so it seems available to civvies. (Yes, I need to verify.)
  • It's relatively affordable at half the price of the LaRue, the cheapest of the three I list.
  • "Lollipop" targets are available.
• On the minus side -
  • It's electric like the LaRue. I have seen vague comments that all targets of this type can break if struck in the middle of a reset cycle. However, I don't know for certain.
  • I'm a little in the dark because I can't find any online reviews or comments on these targets.

There is the MGM Recon ( ReCon Target [ReCon-2T] - $1,495.00 : MGM Targets, Taking training to the next level... ). It's pneumatic and runs off small bottles of compressed air. There are several aspects to this that I can see immediately.

• On the plus side -
  • It would be easy to carry replacements if the target were being shot so much during a day that replacement was needed.
  • The target does not break if it's shot during the reset cycle. That's a big deal.
• On the minus side -
  • The total shot-count before needing more air is less than half what the two targets above offer on a single battery charge.
  • Recharging the paintball air bottle requires some sort of pump (from a glorified tire pump on up) or a scuba tank, plus fittings. That's a good deal of bother.
  • This target is clearly designed to take just one type of target, a head and shoulders silhouette. That's not necessarily a deal-killer since I could get a custom plate made. It is, however, another bother.

Is this all that's on the market? Can anyone share their experiences?

I intend to buy one of these but I'd love some input from people who use them. I'd especially like input from people who have broken them.

TIA

 

[mitchntx]

How about a spring loaded "popper"?
Premium AR500 Spring back pepper popper/rock chuck popper/classic popper (Classic Popper)


Not sure how big of a hurry you are in ...
http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/commercial-sales-good-deals/52879-ar500-steel-targets.html


I bought a couple of the poppers and haven't been disappointed at all. Between the wife and I we've probably put 200 rounds on it.
At 3/8" and at 75 yards, a 223 has warped the plate.

 

[35Remington]

Ben, my opinion is targets should be as simple as possible. That being said, electronics and air systems seem to me to just be asking for trouble. Have you shot spring loaded poppers like Vaq is suggesting? They are quite fun and stupid simple.

The extra bonus from Vaq's first link is JC Steel targets are made at a boys' home, and they recoup some of the proceeds for their work. It's a win-win if you ask me.

 

[Sugar Land]

Subscribed

 

[Vaquero]

Ben, are you wanting pistol only, or will you be using rifle also?
Would the falling plates like at Hicksville work for you?
I'm in design stages for a plate rack like JD's and may look at a portable, if I can keep the weight down enough.

 

[matefrio]

PM or get SC-Texas in here. I shot at some popup targets from a company he was trying out\had brought to the shoot and they worked really well.

I was shooting between two of them as fast as I could see them start to come back up with a NV setup.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Blackhawk targets. Don't know if they are still in business.

I'm in this video at one point or another. I didn't miss any going between the [/FONT]230 and 260 yard targets for about 30 rounds.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]

[/FONT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkjI2sls-nM

 

[35Remington]

I wish our forum had that feature where you can tag someone's name, and they get a notification that their input has been requested.

 

[benenglish]

How about a spring loaded "popper"?

Poppers are great for what they are. I've expended a whole heck of a lot of rounds on them over the years. However, the spring versions reset instantly. I can't count on being able to hear the impact and, while shooting from position, they will reset quicker than I can re-acquire sight of them. Also, I'll be practicing without a spotter. Bottom line, there will be too many times when I won't know if I hit the target or not.

 

[benenglish]

Ben, my opinion is targets should be as simple as possible. That being said, electronics and air systems seem to me to just be asking for trouble.

I agree wholeheartedly.

At this point, I'm just in the research stage. If I decide, based on the experience of others with the auto-resets, that they are too prone to breakage or just too much hassle to deal with, I'll explore other options.

In fact, I think after I reply to everybody I'll put together a list of alternatives and post it. Just writing it all out may help me get closer to a decision.

 

[benenglish]

Ben, are you wanting pistol only, or will you be using rifle also?

Pistol, only. However, as I covered in another thread, to me "pistol" includes rifle cartridges. In this case, I'll be using .308 Win, 6.5mmBR, .30-30, and, later, 6mmBR. I'll occasionally move it to 50 yards and shoot it with a .45.

OTOH, what kills steel targets is velocity; my loads will stay under 2500 fps, in most cases way under. I doubt I'd tear up even targets rated for handguns only.

Would the falling plates like at Hicksville work for you?

I doubt it. I can't imagine using a rope pull on targets that will typically be 200 yards away.

 

[benenglish]

Blackhawk targets. Don't know if they are still in business.

Their web site no longer exists. These days, that's a pretty good indicator that they're out of business. I've now viewed two different videos from SC-Texas on those targets and they actually reset too quickly for what I'm doing. Besides, at 105 pounds per unit, they are pushing the limit of what I'd call portable.

 

[Vaquero]

200 yd, handgun with rifle chamberings.
The wheels are turning.

Single, double, triple?
Each extra lollipop adds weight.

What diameter target?

You've given me a "spark".

 

[benenglish]

Let me back up here a minute and consider general principles and alternative mechanisms.

I'm looking for a target that lets me know it's been hit. I really don't care how that is achieved. To quote from the Challenge Targets web site, if a target notifies the shooter of a hit, then "In a training environment, each shot creates pass/fail feedback..." That feedback loop is important to me. Remember that I'm working without a spotter. That means that I can't set up that feedback loop by relying on someone telling me "Hit!" after each shot. As trivial as the lack of a spotter sounds, training without one is actually a severe handicap that I'm trying to overcome. If I had a spotter, I wouldn't have started the thread; a simple plate-on-a-post would be all I need.

There are alternatives to motorized targets that will provide instant or near-instant confirmation of a hit.

There are counterweighted lollipops with a visual element added. What I've seen has left me a bit underwhelmed but there's always hope.

The Nevco ( See: Targets - NevcoTargets.com ) long range rifle target looks perfect at first. When hit, it swings and reveals an attached plate that's brightly painted. However, the demo video shows it being shot with a .308 at 50 yards. If it were moved out to 200 and shot with a much-reduced .308 load from a 14" barrel, I doubt it would move enough or move long enough for me to always be sure if I had hit or missed.

MGM offers their Flash Target that does the same thing - reveal a brightly colored surface when hit. (See: Flash Target [FTC] - $427.38 : MGM Targets, Taking training to the next level... ). That target, unfortunately, comes with a plate that's way too large, once again leading me to need a custom plate. Also, I'm a klutz; I'm pretty sure I'll quickly break off those lightweight flash cards. However, it's more affordable and it offers a large enough colored flag when hit that it might work for me. Again, I'm keeping this one in the back of my mind.

There are even simpler swingers on the market but they're just not suitable. The Swinger from MGM wouldn't work since it's designed to react very little when hit. Very small swingers might keep moving after being hit (e.g., the Nevco "Clay Target Swinger") but I wouldn't be able to see them move well enough to get a quick and reliable confirmation of a hit.

There's another target out there that I don't know how to classify. It's a self-resetting pendulum swinger that mimics the look of the auto-resets.

I'm referring to the Challenge Target Extreme Reactive Target. (See: Challenge Targets Extreme Reactive Target (w/ 6" Rifle Target Plate) ). Personally, I have an "extreme-ly" negative reaction to anyone who puts "Extreme!" in the name of their products. Once I get past that bias, though, that particular target might just be what I need. It's bulky so portability is compromised but it's not too heavy at 54 pounds. There are also a bunch of confusing configuration options. Still, this one deserves further study.

Finally, I have a couple of thoughts that go way afield.

Does anybody make a target that rings like a bell? Most steel doesn't. There's a dull thunk, at best, from most steel target setups. Free-standing knockdown targets make much more noise and sometimes ring but they have to be reset after every shot. Gongs hung from chains are too damped by the chains to make clearly audible noise at every hit. Yes, I know some will dispute that. My ears are lousy and I can't rely on them nor can I rely on always having a quiet range on which to practice. YMMV. If this whole decision process leaves me too confused, I may just buy a simple plate-on-a-post and try relying an audible feedback but past experience tells me I'll be disappointed.

One last way to create that feedback loop I referenced is to ignore any visual or audible signal from the target itself and set up some alternative method to know when the target is hit. There are systems where you put an impact sensor on the back of the target and it triggers a flash to let you know you got a hit. I know about the Target Impact Signal System (See: How It Works | Target Impact Signal System ). I object to the fact that this system is insanely over-priced for what it is; OTOH, it's still much cheaper than an auto-reset. I also have enough equipment (slaves, flashes, and such) left over from my days as a photographer to adapt a system like this and make it suit me better. Getting an instant electronic flash blast in the face is a pretty good way to know when I've hit my target, so this system deserves consideration.

There are lots of do-it-yourself impact sensors out there that can be used for the same purpose but I'm not much of a do-it-yourselfer.

OK, after clarifying what I'm trying to achieve and throwing out a few more alternatives, does anyone have more thoughts or experiences they can relate?

TIA, again.

 

[benenglish]

Single, double, triple?

Single.

What diameter target?

If I had to pick one, 6 inches would be the most useful.

 

[matefrio]

A wireless camera set out on the field would be a great spotter for you and may be cheaper :-). Set it up with a DVR and record the whole session.

 

[benenglish]

A wireless camera set out on the field would be a great spotter for you and may be cheaper :-). Set it up with a DVR and record the whole session.

Thought of that already. Post-review, even a few minutes later, does not set up that training feedback loop and trigger the mental processes that condition me, subconsciously, to repeat proper technique and correct bad technique. I need something that tells my whole person, instantly, "You did that right" or "You did that wrong".

 

[matefrio]

How about a spring assisted target that triggers a buzzer after reset? I assume your hearing, or lack there of, is keeping you from hearing the ringing metal?

A little ingenuity and we could setup an electric shock or pleasure stimulator depending on hit and miss.

 

[mitchntx]

A little ingenuity and we could setup an electric shock or pleasure stimulator depending on hit and miss.

Could a MASTER switch (not a SLAVE switch) be rigged to chose between electric shock or pleasure stimulation?

 

[benenglish]

OK, you guys are gettin' creepy.

I guess that's why I hang around here.

 

[matefrio]

Could a MASTER switch (not a SLAVE switch) be rigged to chose between electric shock or pleasure stimulation?

Depends what the end user is into.