Ukraine War and Politics

[Dakar34]

You have presented nothing but red (soviet) herring.

The USA doing something wrong in the 1980s doesn't justify russia doing something 100x worse today.

I condemn them both, but you only seem interested in condemning the USA, but excusing the soviets/russian evils to the detriment of Ukriane.

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Soviet my ass.
In the real world, big fish eat little fish unless the little fish makes peace. Unless we're willing to go to war with Russia, Ukraine is not going to win. Russians already see this war as resulting from US power, intent on encircling and ultimately subjugating their country. Direct involvement would confirm that in their eyes. Unlike Iraq, Russia has lots of nukes, of many sizes, and the ability to deliver them to the US.
In a fight for survival, I can't imagine any country not using everything they have.
So the question is, are you willing to go all in? I'm not. You can call that cowardice or anything you want. I call it a cost/benefit calculation.

 

[Havok1]

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Ukraine won’t ever ‘’defeat’’ Russia.

Eventually we’ll see a brokered deal in which Russia gets to keep most of the Donbas, & maybe one seaport.

Our support is being used to attrit Russian personnel & material.

Russia can resupply by land, we have a 5,000 mile distance issue.

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if our goal is attrition, we are doing an incredibly bad job of it. By funding this war we are providing a training ground for Russia. People need to look at the big picture beyond just whats happening in a small section of Ukraine.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Soviet my ass.
In the real world, big fish eat little fish unless the little fish makes peace. Unless we're willing to go to war with Russia, Ukraine is not going to win. Russians already see this war as resulting from US power, intent on encircling and ultimately subjugating their country. Direct involvement would confirm that in their eyes. Unlike Iraq, Russia has lots of nukes, of many sizes, and the ability to deliver them to the US.
In a fight for survival, I can't imagine any country not using everything they have.
So the question is, are you willing to go all in? I'm not. You can call that cowardice or anything you want. I call it a cost/benefit calculation.

Please see Neville Chamberlain

 

[cycleguy2300]

Soviet my ass.
In the real world, big fish eat little fish unless the little fish makes peace. Unless we're willing to go to war with Russia, Ukraine is not going to win. Russians already see this war as resulting from US power, intent on encircling and ultimately subjugating their country. Direct involvement would confirm that in their eyes. Unlike Iraq, Russia has lots of nukes, of many sizes, and the ability to deliver them to the US.
In a fight for survival, I can't imagine any country not using everything they have.
So the question is, are you willing to go all in? I'm not. You can call that cowardice or anything you want. I call it a cost/benefit calculation.

Ah, globalism and russia is scary.

Got it...

russia doesn't view their invasion of a sovereign nation as the result of the USA... They view it the same way a rapist or robber does, they will take what they can until someone stops them. They saw a weak and divided west (they only became aggressive with feckless American presidents) and took their chance.

russia knows using nukes will end badly for them, they wont use them to preserve their theft of Ukrainian lands.

They said giving Ukraine aid would escalate, it didn't.

russia said providing artillery would escalate the war, russia said providing tanks would escalate the war, russia said providing F-16s would escalate.... they yell and scream but know that is all the can do. That and plant bots, stooges and trolls to lie and besmerch the west to try to get American and European opinion to change.

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[Dakar34]

Please see Neville Chamberlain

I think the better analogy is WW1. No one wanted a big war. Every action and mobilization was a completely reasonable reaction. And those who study such things, btw, generally see WW2 as directly arising from WW1 and the way it ended.

 

[Eastexasrick]

I think the better analogy is WW1. No one wanted a big war. Every action and mobilization was a completely reasonable reaction. And those who study such things, btw, generally see WW2 as directly arising from WW1 and the way it ended.

But of course you would.

 

[Dakar34]

Ah, globalism and russia is scary.

Got it...

russia doesn't view their invasion of a sovereign nation as the result of the USA... They view it the same way a rapist or robber does, they will take what they can until someone stops them. They saw a weak and divided west (they only became aggressive with feckless American presidents) and took their chance.

russia knows using nukes will end badly for them, they wont use them to preserve their theft of Ukrainian lands.

They said giving Ukraine aid would escalate, it didn't.

russia said providing artillery would escalate the war, russia said providing tanks would escalate the war, russia said providing F-16s would escalate.... they yell and scream but know that is all the can do. That and plant bots, stooges and trolls to lie and besmerch the west to try to get American and European opinion to change.

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You completely misuse terms on a constant basis. Ukraine being incorporated into the EU etc IS globalism advancing, not the other way around.
And the reason we're only funding a stalemate and war of attrition is that, our gov't and both parties seem to believe, it furthers our objectives w/o an unreasonable risk.
But that doesn't mean we won't stumble into all-out war. Time will tell.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I think the better analogy is WW1. No one wanted a big war. Every action and mobilization was a completely reasonable reaction. And those who study such things, btw, generally see WW2 as directly arising from WW1 and the way it ended.

Appeasing tyrants never works.

Allowing putin to consume Ukriane will not satisfy his hunger...

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[Havok1]

One could just as easily say that anyone posting on this forum with that much of a hard on for funding the proxy war must be a Ukrainian bot.

 

[Dakar34]

One could just as easily say that anyone posting on this forum with that much of a hard on for funding the proxy war must be a Ukrainian bot.

Yeah, but it's not a coherent argument, just an ad hominem attack and a cheap shot. What's that old saying about getting down in the mud to wrestle with a pig? ;-)

 

[leVieux]

Ah, globalism and russia is scary.

Got it...

russia doesn't view their invasion of a sovereign nation as the result of the USA... They view it the same way a rapist or robber does, they will take what they can until someone stops them. They saw a weak and divided west (they only became aggressive with feckless American presidents) and took their chance.

russia knows using nukes will end badly for them, they wont use them to preserve their theft of Ukrainian lands.

They said giving Ukraine aid would escalate, it didn't.

russia said providing artillery would escalate the war, russia said providing tanks would escalate the war, russia said providing F-16s would escalate.... they yell and scream but know that is all the can do. That and plant bots, stooges and trolls to lie and besmerch the west to try to get American and European opinion to change.

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Don’t forget how much of our nuclear arsenal was unilaterally destroyed by Obama.

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[cycleguy2300]

One could just as easily say that anyone posting on this forum with that much of a hard on for funding the proxy war must be a Ukrainian bot.

I'm sure you missed it last time:
The short one:


The longer one:


The ESPN one:


The how russia uses propaganda one:


Look at Daker34's history here. Literally jumped in headfirst into the Ukraine threads spreading lies that are VERIFIABLY false. Then began starting a few TITLE/LINK threads that generate recognition for him then he sits back... Dakar34, may simply be unfortunate, but when you look at the pattern know russian trolls and bots have and look at Dakar34's history here they match perfectly.

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[leVieux]

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Has anyone asked those who live in the Donbas ?

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[Dakar34]

How much property plundered from American taxpayers has been pissed away on this nonsense to date?

Actually it's all borrowed money, so it's future taxes that will pay for this. Currently our national debt is going up about $1T every 100 days (not a sustainable path, IMHO). Even if we send munitions from our stockpiles, most will have to be replaced for our own potential use.

 

[BigRed]

Actually it's all borrowed money, so it's future taxes that will pay for this. Currently our national debt is going up about $1T every 100 days (not a sustainable path, IMHO). Even if we send munitions from our stockpiles, most will have to be replaced for our own potential use.

Delivering our children and grandchildren into slavery for the sake of corrupted states everywhere.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Maybe talk show hosts and random people on the internet who are not decision makers have been clear about what they want, but the people demanding aid are not making it clear to the people they are demanding it from.

So weird she says its is the governments position that a "Sanitary zone" should be formed. She is modifying public opinion to match government policy. Even dictators such as putin and FJB know that lying to get the public to support your actions is easier than quelling riots.




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[BigRed]

It looks like congress is getting ready to piss away another $95,000,000,000 plundered from American taxpayers on foreign countries.

The central state can go straight to Hell.

 

[BigRed]

Why the US Debt Is Unsustainable and Is Destroying the Middle Class | Mises Institute

More units of public debt mean weaker productive growth, higher taxes, and more inflation in the future. All three are manifestations of a slow-burn default.

mises.org

 

[Coyote9]

But only one is replicating Hitler’s nazi behavior.

The USA is following Goebel's propaganda techniques, the USA is following Lenin's strategy of blaming political opponents and accusing them of his own actions, the USA is advancing on gun control media control and population control (covid policies) the USA put demonstrators along with rioters in prison over political dissent . The Nazi's employed all of these techniques

 

[Coyote9]

It is a journalist ls job not to simply provide a platform for a public figure, controversial or not, but to provide their statements in context of the facts which something Tucker decidedly failed at with putin. Therefore, Tucker, whether by design or ignorance helped legitimize putin's ridiculous lies regarding Ukriane.

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You mean sorta like Walter Cronkite who admitted to slanting Vietnam reporting due to his anti war beliefs? That sort of journalist? Non biased reporting has never existed and never will, Carlson let one side present their case in their own words- THAT is journalism, anything else is filtered, distorted or otherwise biased.