"Training Classes Aren't Making You Better" Your Thoughts

[StevenC.]

Tim Herron, USPSA GM in Single Stack shares some thoughts. Do you agree?

http://masf.co/2016/07/17/training-...ng-you-a-better-shooter-gasp-what-did-he-say/


https://www.facebook.com/TimHerronShooting/?fref=ts


Tim is a married father of three from Independence, MO. He started shooting pistols in 2010, quickly becoming involved in USPSA. He classified as C Class in Single Stack division with a 1911 that same year and within one year, moved to B Class. His skill set improved as he became more familiar with “how to shoot the game.” Tim achieved Master in Single Stack in October 2013, and Grand Master in August 2014. Along with shooting USPSA matches, Tim also shoots NRA Action Pistol

 

[Recoil45]

Agree.

If I were coaching a new shooter I would suggest getting comfortable at a static range, then shooting USPSA or IDPA for 2 -3 years. Then move on to the tactical training classes for the mindset. Classes are very expensive and too short to expect any real improvement. Matches are cheap.

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

Pretty impressive Resume for someone who's only been shooting pistols for 6 years.

Improvement happens with purposeful and regimented practice wherein the tools you gain from those classes can be utilized toward a goal that is worked for.

So training does infact help if you use what you learned properly and in a directed fashion. He's talking from a purely competitive aspect of shooting it seems. Yes most of the "classes" out there are based on a different mindset/goal than your normal competitive shooting course.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

What's done in class is statistically insignificant in volume and frequency necessary to develop long term subconscious competence with most things. Same concept applies to tactics, mindset, etc. Volume and frequencies that might be seen in a typical 1-5 day class are usually in the ballpark to achieve conscious incompetence(deficient; you know what needs work), or possibly conscious competence(proficient in an inefficient manner). In other words, a few hundred to a few thousand reps within a 1-5 day period. 3 days later, you're awesome. 3 months later, with nothing in between, decidedly less so.

 

[zincwarrior]

What's done in class is statistically insignificant in volume and frequency necessary to develop long term subconscious competence with most things. Same concept applies to tactics, mindset, etc. Volume and frequencies that might be seen in a typical 1-5 day class are usually in the ballpark to achieve conscious incompetence(deficient; you know what needs work), or possibly conscious competence(proficient in an inefficient manner). In other words, a few hundred to a few thousand reps within a 1-5 day period. 3 days later, you're awesome. 3 months later, with nothing in between, decidedly less so.

So your argument is that people shouldn't take a training class, or police? Am I misreading your post?

 

[BRD@66]

I'll bet that members of the Significant Training Firearms Union will want to quash this thread quickly.

 

[peeps]

So your argument is that people shouldn't take a training class, or police? Am I misreading your post?

I read his post as classes will enlighten you to something, but continued practice will be the only thing that keeps you proficient. Classes alone will not make you better.

 

[Charlie]

I'll bet that members of the Significant Training Firearms Union will want to quash this thread quickly.

 

[zincwarrior]

I read his post as classes will enlighten you to something, but continued practice will be the only thing that keeps you proficient. Classes alone will not make you better.

Ah yes, that would be wisdom. Anyone in physical sports would agree.

Zincwarrior: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
some dude: "Practice!"
Zincwarrior: "Couldn't I just take a cab?"

 

[Gramps]

I agree with Tim. I started out on the square range at the ripe age of 28 learning to shoot a handgun. About two years later I took an SD class, learned a lot about what I didn't know. Took a few more classes over the last 3 years and guess what, I have not improved that much. Yup that's right, spent several thousands dollars to send lead down range with some great instructors from top level training outfits.

Fast forward to today, I've taken up the competition side of shooting and started putting in work. My routine now includes physical training, dry fire 3-5 times a week for 30 minutes before work, and shooting one match per month. Many of those little things you learn in class start to click when running dry fire drills at home. But you say "Scott, if you're not getting the recoil impulse from shooting it isn't the same"! BULL. Working on getting a good draw EVERY time, getting the sights lined up on target EVERY time, breaking the shot without the sights moving EVERY time is the foundation to better shooting.

I've always been competitive, wanting to be the best, pushing my limits, and by God don't tell me something can't be done. Shooting the "games" is a perfect way for me to apply self defense fundamentals under pressure. Best way I can sum up this rant is with one of the best attributes competition shooting has provided me, learning to be fast AND accurate. That my friends is the very core of USPSA/IDPA and Self Defense shooting.

To add - I am an average shooter right now, there are manys guys out there who are tops in their fields. Read their writings, listen to their podcasts, and make the decision which direction is best for you.

 

[45tex]

It's a fact, in a crisis you will revert to your training.
I like "run and hide" drills, and "action 911 speed dialing."

 

[PRE-K]

Dry firing... no one ever believes that one, even coming from a GM.

 

[Renegade]

"Training Classes Aren't Making You Better"

I do agree these 1 day classes are basically a waste of ammo.

But 1:1 training with someone who works soley on your needs, is invaluable.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I read his post as classes will enlighten you to something, but continued practice will be the only thing that keeps you proficient. Classes alone will not make you better.

EXACTLY. To expand on that further, the real value in training classes is:

• Potential for experiencing "lightbulb" teaching moments
• Insight and diagnosis from an experienced instructor
• Being shown more efficient and effective methods
• Being placed into new and interesting situations

A person can learn and become successful as well as performant almost entirely on their own. People have done it, though people that do so tend to be the exception to the rule. With a training class and great instructor, there is the potential you will experience lightbulb moments that can accelerate your learning far faster than you might achieve on your own. For example, you might have been using a really inefficient technique for years. Sometimes, just the right situation in class, or just the right comment by an instructor, might be enough to make things "click" and realize this one minor change can make a substantial improvement for you. It's a force multiplier in proficiency, when the course plan and instructor are good, and when the student is receptive and willing.

At the end of the day though, all of the "lightbulb" moments in the world won't matter if you never follow through consistently, outside of class.

 

[Vaquero]

EXACTLY. To expand on that further, the real value in training classes is:

• Potential for experiencing "lightbulb" teaching moments
• Insight and diagnosis from an experienced instructor
• Being shown more efficient and effective methods
• Being placed into new and interesting situations

A person can learn and become successful as well as performant almost entirely on their own. People have done it, though people that do so tend to be the exception to the rule. With a training class and great instructor, there is the potential you will experience lightbulb moments that can accelerate your learning far faster than you might achieve on your own. For example, you might have been using a really inefficient technique for years. Sometimes, just the right situation in class, or just the right comment by an instructor, might be enough to make things "click" and realize this one minor change can make a substantial improvement for you. It's a force multiplier in proficiency, when the course plan and instructor are good, and when the student is receptive and willing.

At the end of the day though, all of the "lightbulb" moments in the world won't matter if you never follow through consistently, outside of class.

Much truth here.
The best training in the world, left unattended,
is worth less than bad habits, practiced daily.

Burn powder.
Regardless of your "training". Or lack thereof.

 

[Handgun World]

The title of the article is misleading. However, it's good at getting attention and causing people to read it. The most important point that Tim makes is that you need to reinforce what you learn in a training class, with consistent quality practice. That's true of everything you try to learn. Think about the most basic things we learn, we go to a training class first, or get a some lessons, to find out what we don't know. Then, we put what we learn into practice. So to say that training classes aren't making you better, is somewhat misleading. Can you learn to be a good swimmer without some good swimming lessons? I'm glad he made the point that you have to follow up you training with consistent practice. Competition shooting is a good way to do that.

If you want to be any type of professional or even a competent performer, you need some type of training or lesson to let you know what you need to work on. We know that doctors take continuing education training to learn even more than they already learned to become an MD. Lawyers have to train and learn to pass the bar exam. Athletes go to "training camp" to learn how to improve. And they all then practice what they learned, to perfect their knowledge.

I'm an instructor and I will admit, simply taking a class and then never practicing what you learned, will have little effect. But, you still need the class or private lesson.

 

[Glockzilla]

Training classes will make you better IF...and only IF the instructor is competent and IF he is able to connect with the students and IF the students follow through and start practicing routinely.
A lot of IFs.. but it can happen.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Tell me.
Show me.
Let me try.
Repeat as required.

People like the tell me and show me parts but it's useless unless you actually try to make use of it. A GOOD instructor doesn't stop with the first two in class and explains you aren't done when you leave the class room.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Tell me.
Show me.
Let me try.
Repeat as required.

Excellent! This is, by far, one of the most concise but profound explanations of the principles in discussion.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Excellent! This is, by far, one of the most concise but profound explanations of the principles in discussion.

Thank you.