Tomcat Exploded

[PinnedandRecessed]

Not a fan of .32 pillow fight?

Nah, I wouldn't mind a vintage Colt 1903/1908 for the range but don't see much use for the mousy intermediate calibers when modern designs pack major calibers in smaller and smaller packages.

 

[Glenn B]

It's a miracle that nobody was injured. The customer's granddaughter was firing it when it kaboomed. Beretta just laughed at me when I asked them to warranty it. They won't even return the remains of the gun. They have been ignoring me since April.

They certainly must have changed their policies at Beretta if they are laughing at you and ignoring you. I currently have nine or ten Beretta pistols; have had several more over the years. Whenever there was a problem, and problems were rare and never included catatrophic failure like the one pictured in the opening post, Beretta always made good even to replacing two of the pistols completely. As for them refusing to return the pistol, I'd get a lawyer on that - one to send them a letter demanding it back. It in essence has been stolen from the owner if they refuse to return it; if it was mine I'd also report them to the ATF. The reason they are not returning it, I think/guess, is likely that the failure was due to a fault with the pistol and they'd rather not return the evidence of that fault to you because a lawyer could probably make big bucks appear because of any fault with the pistol.

One question: You say it was not a sqib caught in the barrel - how do you know that? I would imagine a sqib causing that would have been expelled when the gun blew apart but I am certainly no expert on the dynamics of a gun exploding thus am asking.

As for the ammo used, I'd check with Sellier & Bellot to find out if they have had any recalls on ammo that was faulty. I'd also not use any remaining rounds from that lot of their ammo.

 

[Hoji]

They certainly must have changed their policies at Beretta if they are laughing at you and ignoring you. I currently have nine or ten Beretta pistols; have had several more over the years. Whenever there was a problem, and problems were rare and never included catatrophic failure like the one pictured in the opening post, Beretta always made good even to replacing two of the pistols completely. As for them refusing to return the pistol, I'd get a lawyer on that - one to send them a letter demanding it back. It in essence has been stolen from the owner if they refuse to return it; if it was mine I'd also report them to the ATF. The reason they are not returning it, I think/guess, is likely that the failure was due to a fault with the pistol and they'd rather not return the evidence of that fault to you because a lawyer could probably make big bucks appear because of any fault with the pistol.

One question: You say it was not a sqib caught in the barrel - how do you know that? I would imagine a sqib causing that would have been expelled when the gun blew apart but I am certainly no expert on the dynamics of a gun exploding thus am asking.

As for the ammo used, I'd check with Sellier & Bellot to find out if they have had any recalls on ammo that was faulty. I'd also not use any remaining rounds from that lot of their ammo.

Didn’t read the whole thread , didja?

 

[zackmars]

Then quit blaming the OP.
It's a manufacturer issue. But they sent out a note.
I've met the OP.
He wouldn't remember me, but that's irrelevant.
I know he's just trying to warn some people.
He stands nothing to gain from this experience.

Well, it is op's (well, OP's, customer's fault) for shooting +p+ through a gun not meant to handle it. OP says as much in his first post.

I don't know of a single firearm capable of handling a 23% increase in pressure from what the manual states the gun can safely shoot.

I'm not accusing him of trying to gain anything here

 

[Geezer]

My mouse gun in .32 ACP is a NAA Guardian. No restrictions from manufacturer on ammo.

That's because it's built like a tank.

 

[TheDan]

If this was caused by a faulty barrel, then it's on them. If it was caused by the design not being able to handle that particular load, then they are selling something that could hurt people. People will continue to make this mistake. Anyone would assume factory ammo through that gun would be fine.

I'm inclined to think it is a faulty barrel. Like I was saying earlier, the barrel isn't the known weak part on these guns. When people run too hot of ammo it damages the frame and slide, and it's not as catastrophic of a failure.

Of course since non-recommended ammo was used, it gives them an out to not do anything about it.

 

[SpenceNaz]

Just in case anyone is interested, they actually responded to me on twitter of all places. They said their gunsmith's notes said the failure was due to the ammunition used. So I guess that confirms that using ammo that goes over the ft/lbs recommended CAN potentially cause catastrophic failure in addition to the cracked frames. Just something to be aware of I guess. (Unless the barrel was bad and they don't want to fess up to it)

On an unrelated note, I really want to add a 950 Minx .22short to my collection. I did repair work on one a year or two ago, and test-firing it was so fun.

 

[zackmars]

Just in case anyone is interested, they actually responded to me on twitter of all places. They said their gunsmith's notes said the failure was due to the ammunition used. So I guess that confirms that using ammo that goes over the ft/lbs recommended CAN potentially cause catastrophic failure in addition to the cracked frames. Just something to be aware of I guess. (Unless the barrel was bad and they don't want to fess up to it)

On an unrelated note, I really want to add a 950 Minx .22short to my collection. I did repair work on one a year or two ago, and test-firing it was so fun.

Did your customer try to contact Beretta, or was it just you?

Some companies (including Beretta apparently) don't like dealing through a third party

 

[Darqhelmet]

They sending it back?

 

[Hoji]

On an unrelated note, I really want to add a 950 Minx .22short to my collection. I did repair work on one a year or two ago, and test-firing it was so fun.

They are awesome little guns

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

.22short

The old adage, "Better than a sharp stick" still applies but your really flirting with that line aren't you.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

They are awesome little guns View attachment 401690

Second that.

 

[HarryK]

I'm an FFL and one of my customers bought this gun. His granddaughter was firing it when this happened. It's honestly a miracle that nobody was injured. He was shooting S&B ammo, which exceeds Beretta's foot pound recommendation. However, using the wrong ammo will typically only result in damage to the frame, not make the gun friggin explode. Beretta won't do anything about it, so I just want to share this wherever I can.

I have a Beretta Model 21A .25ACP. “Bobcat”. Years ago, while shooting recreationally with several detectives and a Firearms Examiner from our agency’s crime lab, my 15yo son asked to shoot the Bobcat. He fired two shots and stopped, saying “Something hit me!” I ran up and took control of the pistol and checked him out. He was okay, but I noticed the firing pin was missing. I located it at his feet, in the dirt. At my first opportunity, I contacted Beretta and explained what happened. The person on the other end of the line told me “That is impossible.” He also claimed he could not locate my firearm’s serial number in his database. I had the pistol repaired, but I’m reluctant to shoot it!

 

[TheDan]

Gotta have a small Italian pistol to go with your small Italian car.

 

[Glenn B]

Didn’t read the whole thread , didja?

Yes, I thought I had read it all. Did I miss something?

 

[Hoji]

Yes, I thought I had read it all. Did I miss something?

It would seem you missed where he explained that Beretta says not to use certain ammo because it is too hot and S&B exceeds Beretta’s pressure threshold.

No reason to contact S&B about their ammo being out of spec.

 

[NorthBallistics]

There was no squib. It was factory S&B .32acp ammo. Beretta warns people not to use certain types of .32acp ammo, but the warning only says 'increased wear and tear'. In my opinion, the barrel was defective or Beretta is knowingly selling a dangerous product.

WEAR AND TEAR? lol, explosion.

I really hope my 92x performance stands up.

 

[A1Oni]

WEAR AND TEAR? lol, explosion.

I really hope my 92x performance stands up.
View attachment 402347

the 92 isnt a poorly designed 32 so it should be fine.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Change your springs and locking block on schedule.

 

[smax]

I had a Tomcat a looong time ago. I put a couple boxes of that same S&B ammo though it and the frame cracked. Luckily not catastrophically, we caught it quickly enough to know to stop shooting.

Beretta replaced it with a new Inox version, and I promptly traded it in for a different gun. Been shooting SIGs ever since.