those who do their own car work
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Syn fluid in the tranny should show a measurable drop in tranny temp..
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Hard to say ... depends on what is causing your engine to consume oil. There are a couple ways for oil to enter the chamber.
1) Poor piston ring seal, this would not be solved by switching oil types. The engine will be low on leak-down results in a cylinder (due to detonation) or as result of high-mileage and/or poor maintenance (sediment in the oil) as seen in multiple cylinders, generally preferring rear cylinders that run warmer or may have lower oil pressure on the manifold / rail.
2) Blow-By, this is a result of combustive gasses bypassing the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Increased ring and or bore wear will increase blow-by which pushes oil vapor through the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system and into the intake (emissions reasoning). You can bypass the intake feed, plug the intake hole, and run the PCV vented to the air using a catch can to separate the oil from the air, and that will reduce the amount of oil fed into the intake system. Again, switching to another oil will not prevent this, as the sump itself is exposed to the rotating crankshaft which aerates the oil into a mist. On a race car they run a baffle setup tightly matched to the crankshaft and sump baffles to greatly reduce the amount of oil that is put into the crankcase if using a wet sump design. Most road race cars pull too many lateral G's for a wet sump so they stick to a dry sump system, otherwise engines like to come apart at 7000 RPM on the back stretch of Texas World Speedway at 140 MPH and saturate the rear tires with hot oil.
3) The valve guides are worn and/or there is insufficient swelling of the valve seal. No amount of oil on a valve is acceptable. The oil will get baked on and will reduce chamber filling, fuel atomization, and generally play havoc on the efficiency of that cylinder. I usually see this on 100K+ motors, and at full temp they tend to seal back up. The oil will have a swell agent in it to help things seal, and those agents can vary between manufacturers. A higher viscosity oil may improve how much oil is being burnt in this case, and a switch to another oil brewer might help also. It's not really a synthetic vs. organic thing.
4) Turbochargers, will sometimes have some seal blow-by ... a tiny amount is OK, but anything that is more than a spoonful in volume along the charge pipes, intercooler, and intake manifold is a sure sign of a blown compressor side shaft seal. Oil on the compressor will reduce it's efficiency which will increase charge temps, reduce power, etc. Pull the charge outlet pipe and take a peak inside.
For what it's worth the S50 motor in my BMW M3 is supposed to consume about 1L of oil every 1000 miles. It's a pretty high compression motor.
syn oil removes sludge very effectively. If sludge in an old motor is plugging small gasket leaks, syn oiil will remove it and those small leaks can re-appear. An engine with good seals/gaskets wont have an issue.
see above post for other possible issues.
see above post for other possible issues.
+1 I have used it in all my new vehicles, but in really old ones I stick with walmart brand oil....i figure it forces me to pay more attention, which old motors may need.
Trans coolers are great for vehicles that are seeing use beyond normal driving. And if your vehicle was designed for towing, you probably won't see any benefit, either. Basically, unless you're towing at the max capacity, in the mountains during the summer... Not worth it. Getting the ATF too cool is almost as bad as getting it too hot.
As far as viscosity, el Guapo is right on most points. The only thing I'd disagree with is that you should run the first viscosity number (the cold viscosity as in 0W30) as low as possible always. Even in a 0W oil, it's going to be thicker cold than hot. The lighter your cold viscosity, the less wear on your engine, since most wear happens on a cold engine when oil flow is lowest. The only number that will change between a "summer" and "winter" oil should be the second number, the hot viscosity (as in 0W20). Even then, newer, tighter engines will support a light viscosity like 20 year-round, and will actually benefit from it.
Oil pressure doesn't lubricate an engine. Oil flow does, though you do need a minimum pressure to do things like keeping the flow moving to all parts of the engine. The high idle pressure you get with cold oil is actually a bad thing. You're moving less oil, but the pressure reads higher because it's so much thicker and harder to move. In this situation, you get more oil simply bypassed through the pressure relief valve on the oil pump. You're wasting energy pumping oil that isn't lubricating, and you're not lubricating as well because there isn't nearly as much oil going to the bearings. FWIW, most people think of engine oil incorrectly. Thinking of it "lubricating" the bearings is actually not entirely correct. The bearings in an engine are designed to hold oil between them. They're actually bearing races with the oil making up the actual bearings. And the higher the oil flow, the stronger the bearings.
Basically, as long as you're making the minimum pressure specified for that engine, the oil isn't too thin.
There are a few misconceptions about synthetic oil. The only thing that makes it "better" is that it doesn't rely on viscosity modifiers to be multi-viscosity. You have to add chemicals to regular oil to make it act like 5 weight cold and 30 weight hot. It's truly a 30 weight oil, though. As the oil is used; heated, crushed and exposed to things like fuel and combustion byproducts, those viscosity modifiers break down. What you drain out at the end of 5,000 miles isn't 5w30 anymore. Depending on the quality of the oil, how hard it was used, etc. it could be straight 30 by the time you drain it, or just something closer to 10w or 15w30. Synthetics don't have that problem. They've been torn apart and reassembled at the molecular level to do this, so they don't break down in the same way. That's not to say that they don't break down, they do. I've seen engines that run synthetic sludge up due to poor maintenance, and I've pulled so many clogged oil filters out of BMWs that I can't even count.
My take? Don't wait more than 6,000 miles to change your oil, no matter what kind of oil you run. I suggest 5,000 miles, partly because it's so easy to track yourself. Going the 11,000 - 15,000 miles that the Germans have been scheduling is stupid. Those are the cars I see that have sludge (in spite of Mobil 1) and plugged filters.
Something most people aren't aware of - all engines burn oil. It's only a question of degree. If your engine burns literally no oil, then your rings aren't being lubricated, and it's not going to last long.
Upper cylinder lube winds up burned off, but it has to be there.
Finally, something about those oil filters. Most oil filters are designed to bypass once they get enough junk in them. Your oil filter quits working eventually! That alone is a good reason not to wait too long to change your oil.
It goes back to the days when synthetics were only high performance or race oils. They didn't have the same amount of seal conditioners (if any at all) as regular oils did. That's changed.
As far as viscosity, el Guapo is right on most points. The only thing I'd disagree with is that you should run the first viscosity number (the cold viscosity as in 0W30) as low as possible always. Even in a 0W oil, it's going to be thicker cold than hot. The lighter your cold viscosity, the less wear on your engine, since most wear happens on a cold engine when oil flow is lowest. The only number that will change between a "summer" and "winter" oil should be the second number, the hot viscosity (as in 0W20). Even then, newer, tighter engines will support a light viscosity like 20 year-round, and will actually benefit from it.
Oil pressure doesn't lubricate an engine. Oil flow does, though you do need a minimum pressure to do things like keeping the flow moving to all parts of the engine. The high idle pressure you get with cold oil is actually a bad thing. You're moving less oil, but the pressure reads higher because it's so much thicker and harder to move. In this situation, you get more oil simply bypassed through the pressure relief valve on the oil pump. You're wasting energy pumping oil that isn't lubricating, and you're not lubricating as well because there isn't nearly as much oil going to the bearings. FWIW, most people think of engine oil incorrectly. Thinking of it "lubricating" the bearings is actually not entirely correct. The bearings in an engine are designed to hold oil between them. They're actually bearing races with the oil making up the actual bearings. And the higher the oil flow, the stronger the bearings.
Basically, as long as you're making the minimum pressure specified for that engine, the oil isn't too thin.
There are a few misconceptions about synthetic oil. The only thing that makes it "better" is that it doesn't rely on viscosity modifiers to be multi-viscosity. You have to add chemicals to regular oil to make it act like 5 weight cold and 30 weight hot. It's truly a 30 weight oil, though. As the oil is used; heated, crushed and exposed to things like fuel and combustion byproducts, those viscosity modifiers break down. What you drain out at the end of 5,000 miles isn't 5w30 anymore. Depending on the quality of the oil, how hard it was used, etc. it could be straight 30 by the time you drain it, or just something closer to 10w or 15w30. Synthetics don't have that problem. They've been torn apart and reassembled at the molecular level to do this, so they don't break down in the same way. That's not to say that they don't break down, they do. I've seen engines that run synthetic sludge up due to poor maintenance, and I've pulled so many clogged oil filters out of BMWs that I can't even count.
My take? Don't wait more than 6,000 miles to change your oil, no matter what kind of oil you run. I suggest 5,000 miles, partly because it's so easy to track yourself. Going the 11,000 - 15,000 miles that the Germans have been scheduling is stupid. Those are the cars I see that have sludge (in spite of Mobil 1) and plugged filters.
Something most people aren't aware of - all engines burn oil. It's only a question of degree. If your engine burns literally no oil, then your rings aren't being lubricated, and it's not going to last long.
Upper cylinder lube winds up burned off, but it has to be there.Finally, something about those oil filters. Most oil filters are designed to bypass once they get enough junk in them. Your oil filter quits working eventually! That alone is a good reason not to wait too long to change your oil.
It goes back to the days when synthetics were only high performance or race oils. They didn't have the same amount of seal conditioners (if any at all) as regular oils did. That's changed.
A 0w30 will always have a higher viscosity than a 0w20, at all temperatures, and a tighter motor requires less viscosity to improve flow into the tighter clearances.
Generally speaking it's better to run a narrow spread in the oil to promote stability. For example a 5w20 is a narrow spread, whereas the 0w30 is twice as wide, and I think you'll find that it's usable viscosity is inferior to the 5w20. Both will be suitable for the engine, but when you're discussing start-up wear just having a low cold number doesn't equate to protection.
The viscosity index of synthetic motor oil will change and degrade within 5,000 miles. I could tell I needed to change the oil in my 240SX by watching the oil pressure change over time particularly at start-up. However, what I was getting at 1,500 - 3,000 miles in a turbocharged 2.0L pushing 15 PSI of boost at 7700 RPM is a bit higher thermal load than driving your car around town. In that engine, I was changing the oil every 3,000 miles along with the filter. In my NX2000 with the same engine but non-turbo I was getting 5,500 - 6,000 miles out of it before it'd start chattering on start-up (hydraulic valve train).
In ANY of my cars, the oil filter gets changed at 3,000 miles with an OEM filter. The filters you buy at the local parts store are almost always inferior. We cut apart and measured about 20 different filters for Nissan SR20DE(T) and VG30DETT motors and found out that Wix and Nissan were the best. The Nissan filter's back-drain and blow-by setups were great compared to the others. The Fram filter was absolutely horrible, but we knew that from the start. When turbos ride on a micro film of oil at 300,000 RPM the slightest particulate can ruin a center section ... and there you go replacing a $1,000 ball bearing turbo.
No BMW owner should ever miss a filter replacement either ... you don't even have to get dirty. Just get some o-rings, pop the hood, and pull the old one out, and replace. It's the easiest thing ever.
My take? Don't wait more than 6,000 miles to change your oil, no matter what kind of oil you run. I suggest 5,000 miles, partly because it's so easy to track yourself. Going the 11,000 - 15,000 miles that the Germans have been scheduling is stupid. Those are the cars I see that have sludge (in spite of Mobil 1) and plugged filters.
Something most people aren't aware of - all engines burn oil. It's only a question of degree. If your engine burns literally no oil, then your rings aren't being lubricated, and it's not going to last long.
Finally, something about those oil filters. Most oil filters are designed to bypass once they get enough junk in them. Your oil filter quits working eventually! That alone is a good reason not to wait too long to change your oil.
Oil is fine to 10,000 miles easily. The additives do start to get kinda thin around the 15,000 mark from what I've seen, but it's the filter that needs the 3,000 mile replacement. So many cars have undersized filters to improve start-up flow, but that means they don't last very long. I'm a fan of the BMW design to supplement that.
5) It get's directly injected into the combustion chamber to lubricate your apex seals
Synthetic oil is great stuff. Any synthetic should be good for 20k+ miles, but for those of you who wait that long, please take Sage's advice and replace the filter every 5k. The oil itself will last that long, but your filter will not.
Me, I just buy whatever is on sale and replace oil and filter every 3k miles.
Amsoil. Once a year. Dodge with a 6bt and the wife's escape. Same month as our anniversary makes it easy on me.
I just went through oil training with Quaker state a month or so ago. It was interesting to read this thread and compare with what the manufacture of the oil says. Most of the answers given here were pretty close.
I just went through oil training with Quaker state a month or so ago. It was interesting to read this thread and compare with what the manufacture of the oil says. Most of the answers given here were pretty close.
The_Hunter
Active Member
I run about 15k between oil changes and run 10W60 ... I am willing to bet I am the only here that runs that weight oil :-)
Ive got mobil one extended performance in engine oil, ATF fluid, and diff fluids. Tranny coolers are a cinch, also very beneficial for vehicles that tow often. I've got 2 of them on my xterra.
i just changed my belt and tensioner this week. I like working in my vehicle.
You have a M5 ?
The_Hunter
Active Member
e46 m3
You may be resting but I bet after 9-10k your oil filter is bypassing instead of filtering half the oil that goes into it, lol... Changing just the filter is cheap and easy.
Maybe...I use the Amsoil EaO filters. I do know that when I send out oil for analysis after 20k miles it still had plenty of life left. Amsoil says that under "normal use" you can go 27k between changes.
I am happy with 20k oil changes . And 200k engines.
I believe you about the oil still being good. Sythnetics don't tend to wear out, and as long as you are getting it tested, you could probably use the same oil indefinitely (until the chemists tell you to stop). Your filter isn't going to last that long, tho. It's easy enough to leave the oil in the motor and just change the filter. Amsoil filters are good stuff, too. I usually use Wix because they are widely available.
I'm skeptical about the S54 and it's oil regimen from BMW. The engineers seem to have made some concessions to try to keep the engines alive long term with the high rev limit. Evidence of this is being seen in high mileage S54s as they are losing bottom ends.
The S50B30 and S50B32 motors have held up, so I'm not too sure why they felt the need to go wonky with the S54.
The_Hunter
Active Member
For what its worth I had the oil tested after first oil change I did on the car (at 60-65k) and the test came back good. It prob also helps that I dont drive the piss out of it.
Now when I had the Z06 GM said it should go 7500 between changed with mobil 1, and the onboard computer would tell me it was time to change in 3-3.5k, but that car was auto-xed almost every weekend
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