The Importance of Free Speech

[Younggun]

What was the question under debate?

I admit, I'm not going to watch 4 hours of autistic Spergs going at it, but I am curious what was under contention.

The general topic of discussion was the idea of the US becoming a white ethnic-state and the means by which this could be achieved. Encompassed in this discussion were questions relating to individual vs collective rights, who would be considered "white", the government that would run such a state, and censorship.

 

[TheDan]

When you contradict yourself from one sentence to the next by saying "The only winner of a debate is truth. The narcissistic/sycophantic focus on who "won" or "lost" is another infantile product pushed by the media." ...I don't think so.

I was being facetious. No such thing as "more true" or "truest". Younggun summed it up well in post #17

 

[Charlie Primero]

You said it was a debate, so I thought there was some question up for debate.

 

[TheDan]

...and if judges. By that standard he lost, yet by allowing the spoofing view to be heard...

Your autocorrect is killing me.

 

[Younggun]

Your autocorrect is killing me.

Deal with it, snowflake.

 

[Younggun]

You said it was a debate, so I thought there was some question up for debate.

It was the question of whether or not Spencer has good and workable ideas.

 

[Charlie Primero]

It was the question of whether or not Spencer has good and workable ideas.

Sargon apologized for losing to Spencer...



Spencer is the not a good debater, but Sargon got his audience by shooting insane SJW fish in a barrel, so he's never had to make cogent arguments against strong opposition.

 

[Younggun]

Luckily Spencer's arguments are self defeating.

Which was the point of the thread. Give terrible ideas a platform and they will usually defeat themselves. Try to censor them and it's easy to assume the media is lying as usual, often bolstering the appeal of poorly understood bad ideas.

 

[Charlie Primero]

Luckily Spencer's arguments are self defeating.

Which was the point of the thread. Give terrible ideas a platform and they will usually defeat themselves. Try to censor them and it's easy to assume the media is lying as usual, often bolstering the appeal of poorly understood bad ideas.

I don't know what Spencer's arguments are, but I agree with you that Free Speech for ALL ideas is the best way to go.

I don't remember if it was Molyneux or Jordan Peterson who said it, but it's true: "Once your ideas not allowed a fair hearing, that's when the guns come out".

 

[MTA]

What was the question under debate?

I admit, I'm not going to watch 4 hours of autistic Spergs going at it, but I am curious what was under contention.

Autistic spergs. I had to look that up on urban dictionary

 

[C_Hallbert]

In my subjective opinion of course. I'm sure a white nationalist would see it differently.

What about just a Nationalist and leave out the Race and Color Issues? I’m for a strong, proud and secure Country where we control our own borders and who we accept to become Naturalized Citizens. Race and Color are not an issue, but honesty, integrity, intelligence and willingness to work are all I want.


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[Younggun]

What about just a Nationalist and leave out the Race and Color Issues? I’m for a strong, proud and secure Country where we control our own borders and who we accept to become Naturalized Citizens. Race and Color are not an issue, but honesty, integrity, intelligence and willingness to work are all I want.


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I don't believe a nationalist would support Spencer's ideas unless they had a major issue with race and no regard for the rights of non white people (level of required whiteness yet to be defined)

 

[Younggun]

If you are curious about Spencer's ideas you should watch a short portion of the video. About 5 minutes somewhere between the 15 minute and 2 hour mark should do it. I don't want to be the messenger for his ideas, then end up in a position of giving his defenses for his crap ideas. I couldn't do it anyways as the post would simply be rebuttals to his asinine crap.

Him and his alt right buddies are dirt bags with a shit agenda and no respect for individual rights.

 

[benenglish]

Autistic spergs. I had to look that up on urban dictionary

I didn't. And I should stop there.

 

[MTA]

I hope you take the time to read this if you want the perspective of the age group/generation that Spencer's followers mostly adhere to. Spencer and the white nationalists are young white men who feel isolated from what has been compounding in this country since who knows when. They have zero interest in what modern society would have them be, wannabe thug or an emasculated sjw.

White men can't do anything as a closed off group(compare that with every other race on this planet) and have an identity that has been being eroded for quite awhile. I am in the same age range and I can tell you that it has only gotten worse in the past ten years, atleast from my perspective.

Human beings are tribal by nature and most people want to naturally stay with what they know and what is familiar. So essentially the powers at be just tell a large group of white, young men that they are inherently evil, they have no purpose in life and they shouldn't feel any kinship to each other unless of course they include everyone. But for the young black men, hispanics, Chinese etc. do they have these stipulations? Can they all get together in their respective groups, form organizations, etc. without being chastized as a pack of nazis? Of course they can.

Not trying to say Spencer is wrong or right but I see where him and his followers are coming from. Can you blame them when they want to resist non whites(more specifically hispanics and blacks) who ( a large portion of) want nothing more then to see them(aka us if you are white and are a man) to be gone. I have way more respect for them for refusing to go away rather than turn into some emasculated queerbag liberals want white men to turn into.

But, I don't agree with blatant racism because I believe individuals should be judged off their merit but I also don't agree that white people should be treated differently if they want to live amongst each other, apart from other races. As long as they aren't killing other people, what is the big deal? Every other race does it.

I think where I divulge from Spencer the most is that I feel that other races can and will be Americanized if given the chance. Then the only difference is skin color and I think most people wouldn't care about that if immigrants were shamed into assimilating just like Italians, Irish, Germans etc were.

I am sure someone will be by to tell me how wrong I am or how I am enabling racism. I guess its kinda hard for me to fully explain but I certainly feel alienated as a white male in his late 20's who isn't trying to chop off his junk, wear a purse and go to the next "why white men are evil" convention. I am a huge nationalist, patriot and I am very proud to be European. I have zero issues with white pride. I don't consider myself a racist but I call it how it is and I have zero tolerance for foreign culture if you don't assimilate. Guess how many friends I have my age? Lets just say I get along a lot better with the old crusty fellow Marines down at the Legion.

This next part is what I think about all the time. My wife is white, I am white and our children will be white. There are some people out there who think that we should die because of our skin color. The government imports more them in every day by the truckload. Who is the real threat, a couple of nazis who will never see their plans fulfilled? or millions of liberals who want me dead and want my child's future to be as bleak as possible because of their skin color?

Once again, not defending Spencer but we should really think about the society that these young white men are growing up in now if we want to understand where their hatred and sense of alienation comes from.

 

[Vaquero]

Interesting perspective.

 

[Younggun]

*sigh* Dammit...lol

I read it all. A lot to unpack and I don't think you are "wrong". Nothing in this post should be taken as anything other than discussion. Gonna clip around to keep things a little shorter and probably screw it up on my phone.

Want to ask off the bat, what age group do you consider the target? Primarily the upper limit as I doubt I'm far from it.

They have zero interest in what modern society would have them be, wannabe thug or an emasculated sjw.

Are the alt-right guys really anything more than wanna be thugs?

White men can't do anything as a closed off group

This is true.

Human beings are tribal by nature and most people want to naturally stay with what they know and what is familiar. So essentially the powers at be just tell a large group of white, young men that they are inherently evil, they have no purpose in life and they shouldn't feel any kinship to each other unless of course they include everyone. But for the young black men, hispanics, Chinese etc. do they have these stipulations? Can they all get together in their respective groups, form organizations, etc. without being chastized as a pack of nazis? Of course they can.

I'd say there are groups saying this about all white men. The definition of "powers that be" is probably highly dependent on the individual. I can see this being especially applicable to a young man at a liberal college.

Not trying to say Spencer is wrong or right

He's wrong.

but I see where him and his followers are coming from. Can you blame them when they want to resist non whites(more specifically hispanics and blacks) who ( a large portion of) want nothing more then to see them(aka us if you are white and are a man) to be gone.

Yes, I blame them. I blame them for being weak minded and willing to blame entire races or ethnicities for doing something they are willing to do themselves. I also blame them because the number of those groups who feel that way are typically very small. I blame them for being collectivists.

I have way more respect for them for refusing to go away rather than turn into some emasculated queerbag liberals want white men to turn into.

They are doing the same thing as the progressives. I don't believe they deserve more respect for copying the actions of those they claim to fight against. They are willing to take the same actions as the progressives in order to achieve a mirrored outcome.

But, I don't agree with blatant racism because I believe individuals should be judged off their merit but I also don't agree that white people should be treated differently if they want to live amongst each other, apart from other races.

Generally I agree, but there ideas go much further than self segregation. They would instead force those they wish to live apart from to uproot and go to what Spencer compared to an Indian reservation. Those who wouldn't go willingly would be moved by force (his words). Just think about that for a little bit. Think of how that's worked out historically, when a group is chosen as "the problem" and slotted for removal.

As long as they aren't killing other people, what is the big deal? Every other race does it.

And it wouldn't be a big deal if they were planning to go somewhere and form their ethno-state, but that's not what they want to do. They want to claim what's already been built and shit all over the rights of American citizens to do it. Almost like they don't think their whiteness would be enough to accomplish their grand ambitions.

I think where I divulge from Spencer the most is that I feel that other races can and will be Americanized if given the chance. Then the only difference is skin color and I think most people wouldn't care about that if immigrants were shamed into assimilating just like Italians, Irish, Germans etc were.

Agreed.

I am sure someone will be by to tell me how wrong I am or how I am enabling racism. I guess its kinda hard for me to fully explain but I certainly feel alienated as a white male in his late 20's who isn't trying to chop off his junk, wear a purse and go to the next "why white men are evil" convention.

Yes, it's gotten difficult to be reasonable with out being called a cuck or a NAZI.

I am a huge nationalist, patriot and I am very proud to be European. I have zero issues with white pride.

I'm on board, but pride over my skin color is pretty far down the list. Skin color is such a superficial basis for pride in comparison to being a father, a soldier, or a myriad of other things I do on a daily basis.

This next part is what I think about all the time. My wife is white, I am white and our children will be white. There are some people out there who think that we should die because of our skin color.

There always will be someone wanting to kill someone similar to you for some reason.

The government imports more them in every day by the truckload.

Those people don't care about your race. They kill for other retarded reasons.

Who is the real threat, a couple of nazis who will never see their plans fulfilled? or millions of liberals who want me dead and want my child's future to be as bleak as possible because of their skin color?

A little too hyperbolic. The number of "nazis" shrunk to only a couple, and the number of liberal who want you dead based on race increased from the same "couple" to millions. Most liberals have no interest in seeing you or your family dead any more than most conservatives want to see other races murdered.

Once again, not defending Spencer but we should really think about the society that these young white men are growing up in now if we want to understand where their hatred and sense of alienation comes from.

I don't believe all of those who land in the Alt Right even know what the leaders of the Alt Right envision.


I find it a little funny that things get distilled down to either progressive liberal or alt right, choose a side.

The progressives need the Alt Right to exist. They need a boogie man to point at in order to increase their numbers.

The Alt Right are no different. The white nationalist movement was pretty much dead until the progressives started making a lot of noise. Without one the other would disappear overnight and neither really wants the other gone for that reason.

In the mean time, both will weaken our nation and neither deserve any support. They are both willing to trample rights, they both believe in race based hierarchies, they both are collectivists who believe the good of the collective outweighs any rights of the individual. Both have ideas that would lead to a loss of freedom and a tyrannical government.

 

[MTA]

*sigh* Dammit...lol

I read it all. A lot to unpack and I don't think you are "wrong". Nothing in this post should be taken as anything other than discussion. Gonna clip around to keep things a little shorter and probably screw it up on my phone.

Want to ask off the bat, what age group do you consider the target? Primarily the upper limit as I doubt I'm far from it.

Sorry man lol but I appreciate your response. Honestly typing that out was a bit of a cathartic experience. Most of the people I have talked to are from 25 to early 30's. I appreciate your perspective though and taking the time to right all that out.

 

[Younggun]

I'm in the early 30s category.

I actually considered myself alt right for a little while based on my political views, the people lumped in to the category by the media, and my perception that the Alt Right were outspoken conservatives and libertarians willing to battle progressives head on.

Then I figured out that many being called alt right were hated by the Alt Right and those who I thought just happened to have race issues in the Alt Right made up the majority of it. There's some debate over whether the alt right was racially focused from the start or if it was taken over. I have my opinion but it doesn't really matter at this point. I do believe those pushing the AR purposely keep the end goals in the back ground and put the free speech stuff at the forefront in an effort to attract those who wouldn't really agree with the foundational views.

 

[C_Hallbert]

*sigh* Dammit...lol

I read it all. A lot to unpack and I don't think you are "wrong". Nothing in this post should be taken as anything other than discussion. Gonna clip around to keep things a little shorter and probably screw it up on my phone.

Want to ask off the bat, what age group do you consider the target? Primarily the upper limit as I doubt I'm far from it.



Are the alt-right guys really anything more than wanna be thugs?



This is true.





I'd say there are groups saying this about all white men. The definition of "powers that be" is probably highly dependent on the individual. I can see this being especially applicable to a young man at a liberal college.



He's wrong.



Yes, I blame them. I blame them for being weak minded and willing to blame entire races or ethnicities for doing something they are willing to do themselves. I also blame them because the number of those groups who feel that way are typically very small. I blame them for being collectivists.



They are doing the same thing as the progressives. I don't believe they deserve more respect for copying the actions of those they claim to fight against. They are willing to take the same actions as the progressives in order to achieve a mirrored outcome.



Generally I agree, but there ideas go much further than self segregation. They would instead force those they wish to live apart from to uproot and go to what Spencer compared to an Indian reservation. Those who wouldn't go willingly would be moved by force (his words). Just think about that for a little bit. Think of how that's worked out historically, when a group is chosen as "the problem" and slotted for removal.





And it wouldn't be a big deal if they were planning to go somewhere and form their ethno-state, but that's not what they want to do. They want to claim what's already been built and shit all over the rights of American citizens to do it. Almost like they don't think their whiteness would be enough to accomplish their grand ambitions.



Agreed.



Yes, it's gotten difficult to be reasonable with out being called a cuck or a NAZI.




I'm on board, but pride over my skin color is pretty far down the list. Skin color is such a superficial basis for pride in comparison to being a father, a soldier, or a myriad of other things I do on a daily basis.



There always will be someone wanting to kill someone similar to you for some reason.



Those people don't care about your race. They kill for other retarded reasons.

Younggun, I haven’t figured out how to parse out the different elements of a post to comment on specific points. Nice work, though.


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