Texas Law Shield on Permitless Carry

[ZX9RCAM]

my bad…

Back On Topic,
If they’re 51% alcohol sales, I’ll leave my handgun in the truck.

Post wasn't directed towards you.
Several posts have been deleted.

ETA:See post 99.

 

[jordanmills]

my bad…

Back On Topic,
If they’re 51% alcohol sales, I’ll leave my handgun in the truck.

We need to work on getting that fixed.

 

[Axxe55]

Here is a hypothetical question, and honestly I don't know the answer to, or even if it's a legitimate method.

I'm hoping some with better insight might be able to add some input to this.

If a place prohibits an unlicensed person, that is carrying, from entering an establishment, but allows another person who holds a LTC permit to enter while carrying, would that be discrimination?

Under the new Constitutional Carry law, anyone legal to own and possess a handgun, is legal in Texas to carry on their person, without having to have a permit.

Under that new law, one could assume that there is a clear case of discrimination against law-abiding gun owners who carry without having a LTC permit.

Could a person file a discrimination lawsuit for being barred entry to an establishment simply because they lack having a state issued LTC permit?

Is this reasonable? Am I missing something?

Open for discussion.

 

[ScottDLS]

Here is a hypothetical question, and honestly I don't know the answer to, or even if it's a legitimate method.

I'm hoping some with better insight might be able to add some input to this.

If a place prohibits an unlicensed person, that is carrying, from entering an establishment, but allows another person who holds a LTC permit to enter while carrying, would that be discrimination?

Under the new Constitutional Carry law, anyone legal to own and possess a handgun, is legal in Texas to carry on their person, without having to have a permit.

Under that new law, one could assume that there is a clear case of discrimination against law-abiding gun owners who carry without having a LTC permit.

Could a person file a discrimination lawsuit for being barred entry to an establishment simply because they lack having a state issued LTC permit?

Is this reasonable? Am I missing something?

Open for discussion.

It is perfectly legal to discriminate against people for whatever reason, absent some law to the contrary. I can't think of any Texas criminal law that would be violated by discriminating against people based on LTC status. Nor any civil cause of action you would have against anyone doing so?

Anyone else? Thoughts?

 

[Axxe55]

It is perfectly legal to discriminate against people for whatever reason, absent some law to the contrary. I can't think of any Texas criminal law that would be violated by discriminating against people based on LTC status. Nor any civil cause of action you would have against anyone doing so?

Anyone else? Thoughts?

Thank you Scott. It was just a thought that popped into my mind that I was curious about.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

That would be like claiming discrimination if a person without a driver's license wasn't allowed to drive, no?

 

[Axxe55]

That would be like claiming discrimination if a person without a driver's license wasn't allowed to drive, no?

Good point and good question.

But, driving is a privilege, and a gun is considered a right.

Not 100% sure that is an accurate analogy in regards to my question as far as it being discrimination based solely on whether a person has a LTC permit or not though.

 

[TxStetson]

Gee, IDK about all that, but I've owned a number of their products and have never had any problem. They ALL have performed flawlessly at all times. On disassembly, they look every bit as good as a Smith or a Beretta.
I can comment ONLY on my personal experiences !
leVieux

Go to TABC's sign lookup page to verify. You can report the premise posting an incorrect sign or notify a manager...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

I have the TABC app on my phone, which allows you to look up which sign they should have. I have reported a couple businesses for having 51% signs when not necessary. TABC informed me there’s nothing wrong with a business putting up 51% signs when not required. They’re more concerned with businesses not having them when they are required. I even had the manager of a certain breastaurant named after a couple hills tell me he knew it was the wrong sign but didn’t want to lose customers by putting up a 30.06 sign.

One day I was heading into a trade show at the Midland Horse Shoe Arena and they had a 30.06 & 30.07 sign taped to a board outside the front door, and were using a wand on people and searching their bags prior to entry. I informed them they weren’t allowed to stop me from entering city owned property while carrying and they explained the show sponsor didn‘t want guns at the location. After standing my ground for a few minutes they let me go through without any further issues. The next day when I start through the door, the same 135 pound crackhead who thought he was a mall ninja security guard stops me, points to a photo copy of a 51% sign taped to the door and says if I start through the door with my gun he will detain me for commItting a felony. I opened the TABC app on my phone, showed him that facility wasn’t 51%, and let him know that if he attempted to detain me, not only would he have a bad day, but I would personally fire him after I owned that security company from the court settlement. I don’t get mad easy, but when I do get mad I’m a mean bastard that holds a long grudge.

 

[Renegade]

So the advantages of LTC over PLC that I know of:

1) Campus Carry
2) NICS ByPass
3) Gun Free School Zone carry
4) Secure Airport area depart if caught
5) LTC not bannable from most .gov property
6) LTC is not as restrictive as PLC on eligibility

Updates:

7) You can get (shall issue) permission to carry on Army Corps of Engineers managed properties and lakes. (THX ScottDLS)

Anything else?

 

[ScottDLS]

So the advantages of LTC over PLC that I know of:

1) Campus Carry
2) NICS ByPass
3) Gun Free School Zone carry
4) Secure Airport area depart if caught
5) LTC not bannable from most .gov property
6) LTC is not as restrictive as PLC on eligibility

Anything else?

You can get (shall issue) permission to carry on Army Corps of Engineers managed properties and lakes.

 

[ScottDLS]

I have the TABC app on my phone, which allows you to look up which sign they should have. I have reported a couple businesses for having 51% signs when not necessary. TABC informed me there’s nothing wrong with a business putting up 51% signs when not required. They’re more concerned with businesses not having them when they are required. I even had the manager of a certain breastaurant named after a couple hills tell me he knew it was the wrong sign but didn’t want to lose customers by putting up a 30.06 sign.

One day I was heading into a trade show at the Midland Horse Shoe Arena and they had a 30.06 & 30.07 sign taped to a board outside the front door, and were using a wand on people and searching their bags prior to entry. I informed them they weren’t allowed to stop me from entering city owned property while carrying and they explained the show sponsor didn‘t want guns at the location. After standing my ground for a few minutes they let me go through without any further issues. The next day when I start through the door, the same 135 pound crackhead who thought he was a mall ninja security guard stops me, points to a photo copy of a 51% sign taped to the door and says if I start through the door with my gun he will detain me for commItting a felony. I opened the TABC app on my phone, showed him that facility wasn’t 51%, and let him know that if he attempted to detain me, not only would he have a bad day, but I would personally fire him after I owned that security company from the court settlement. I don’t get mad easy, but when I do get mad I’m a mean bastard that holds a long grudge.

I tried the same approach at JerryWorld (ATT Stadium) for a non-professional, non-scholastic sporting event and the private security basically said we aren't letting you in. So short of forcing my way in, I had no choice but to put my gun back in the car. I complained to City of Arlington (owner) and they said tough crap Texas AG says #MuhPrivateCompany. So if I could have snuck in, there's nothing I could have been charged with, but if private security blocks your entry, basically, what are you going to do about it?

 

[TxStetson]

I tried the same approach at JerryWorld (ATT Stadium) for a non-professional, non-scholastic sporting event and the private security basically said we aren't letting you in. So short of forcing my way in, I had no choice but to put my gun back in the car. I complained to City of Arlington (owner) and they said tough crap Texas AG says #MuhPrivateCompany. So if I could have snuck in, there's nothing I could have been charged with, but if private security blocks your entry, basically, what are you going to do about it?

The only reason I was so adamant with my experience was the AG had made them take the signs down a couple months before. They even tried to have the whole building 51%, since there was a beer vendor there for certain events. But they got denied for that too. So then they decided the event promoters could put their own signage up. But what really got my goat was the little dirty ass minimum wage crackhead that looked like he lived under an overpass grinning like the Cheshire Cat because he thought a photocopy of a 51% sign was going to scare me into falling in line.

 

[leVieux]

It is perfectly legal to discriminate against people for whatever reason, absent some law to the contrary. I can't think of any Texas criminal law that would be violated by discriminating against people based on LTC status. Nor any civil cause of action you would have against anyone doing so?

Anyone else? Thoughts?

"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" ! ! !

leVieux

 

[leVieux]

I tried the same approach at JerryWorld (ATT Stadium) for a non-professional, non-scholastic sporting event and the private security basically said we aren't letting you in. So short of forcing my way in, I had no choice but to put my gun back in the car. I complained to City of Arlington (owner) and they said tough crap Texas AG says #MuhPrivateCompany. So if I could have snuck in, there's nothing I could have been charged with, but if private security blocks your entry, basically, what are you going to do about it?

This is way beyond that. I understand that in New Orleans, the NFL has demanded that no LEO can carry in the "StuporDome" unless they are assigned to duty there & then. I heard that the Orleans Parish Sheriff planned to show up with armed officers to challenge it, but I never heard any more on it. Having worked with the large TDC prison hospital attached to UTMB/John Sealy @ Galveston, I know that Texas Rangers will not be disarmed in Texas.

leVieux

 

[ScottDLS]

This is way beyond that. I understand that in New Orleans, the NFL has demanded that no LEO can carry in the "StuporDome" unless they are assigned to duty there & then. I heard that the Orleans Parish Sheriff planned to show up with armed officers to challenge it, but I never heard any more on it. Having worked with the large TDC prison hospital attached to UTMB/John Sealy @ Galveston, I know that Texas Rangers will not be disarmed in Texas.

leVieux

Since I didn't have a badge, it wouldn't have mattered for me. But the rent-a-cops did helpfully inform me that there was a LEO entrance, when I told them what was triggering the scanner was a gun. Once they found out I wasn't a cop, they told me to pound sand.

 

[Renegade]

This is way beyond that. I understand that in New Orleans, the NFL has demanded that no LEO can carry in the "StuporDome" unless they are assigned to duty there & then.

leVieux

Texas (baseball) Rangers tried that, as did Dallas Cowboys.

Cops then refused all off-duty work assignments (think no traffic control, etc) at stadiums. Both teams relented almost immediately.

 

[Coyote9]

I disagree with their assessment of that particular change re: 30.05 and will dig back into the language of the bill.

Signs to Ban Unlicensed Carry of Firearms​

As of September 1st, 2021, Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code has an option for private property owners to post a sign that prohibits the carry of firearms (handguns and long guns) on the property.

(c) A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:
(1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following:
'Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm';
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

 

[Coyote9]

Signs to Ban Unlicensed Carry of Firearms​

As of September 1st, 2021, Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code has an option for private property owners to post a sign that prohibits the carry of firearms (handguns and long guns) on the property.

(c) A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:
(1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following:
'Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm';
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Source: Texas Law Library

For private property marked with Purple Posts and or no trespass signs OR visible crops or livestock inside a fence. It is criminal trespass to enter without permisson of land owner or agent. AND additional charges if armed either with rifle, pistol or shotgun concealed or openly carried. Different than private property which normally allows public access.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Carry a quarter with ya for a quick check of letter height....

 

[ScottDLS]

Signs to Ban Unlicensed Carry of Firearms​

As of September 1st, 2021, Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code has an option for private property owners to post a sign that prohibits the carry of firearms (handguns and long guns) on the property.



Source: Texas Law Library

@toddnjoyce

Todd was saying he disagreed with the Texas Law Shield FAQ that suggested any sign would do (aka a crayon drawing of a Beretta style pistol with a line through it, colloquially known as a GunBuster sign.)