Storm Shelters

[Whistler]

When I was looking for property I specifically searched for a place with two dwellings so my aging parents could live in one and free up their fixed income to enjoy and not worry about bills. Sounded good but in practice it's been "challenging" living that close to my mother. One of the (many) things she's been bugging me about is a "'fraidy hole" as she calls it and I've subsequently been doing some research on storm shelters.

I'm sure some of you have or had them and I'd appreciate hearing the good, the bad and the ugly, what to look for and what to avoid. Any recommendations on vendors/brands, pricing, etc. or whatever pearls of wisdom you care to share. Let me rephrase that; any pearls of wisdom specifically regarding storm shelters, I know how y'all are...

 

[no2gates]

One possibility I've seen others do is to bury a half size shipping container.

 

[mitchntx]

Install an above ground shelter.

http://www.stormdorms.com/index.php?/stormdorms/aboveground

 

[zincwarrior]

When I was looking for property I specifically searched for a place with two dwellings so my aging parents could live in one and free up their fixed income to enjoy and not worry about bills. Sounded good but in practice it's been "challenging" living that close to my mother. One of the (many) things she's been bugging me about is a "'fraidy hole" as she calls it and I've subsequently been doing some research on storm shelters.

I'm sure some of you have or had them and I'd appreciate hearing the good, the bad and the ugly, what to look for and what to avoid. Any recommendations on vendors/brands, pricing, etc. or whatever pearls of wisdom you care to share. Let me rephrase that; any pearls of wisdom specifically regarding storm shelters, I know how y'all are...

I cannot help but I applaud your efforts to take care of your parents.

 

[mantawolf]

One possibility I've seen others do is to bury a half size shipping container.

If you do that, make sure you do your research. Shipping containers were not meant to have the of lateral pressure that burying them involves. They will collapse.

 

[no2gates]

If you do that, make sure you do your research. Shipping containers were not meant to have the of lateral pressure that burying them involves. They will collapse.

I have not seen one in person, just saw someone in a video do one and didn't put much thought into it. You're right, they are sturdy as hell with vertical pressure, but it's just sheet metal holding back the earth and burying you alive unless you reinforce that thing.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I've researched them a little. From what I've seen and people I've talked to up in Oklahoma, both above and below ground shelters/safe rooms work for the most part. Both have their drawbacks. Below ground I would make sure it is deep enough, has good ventilation and drainage. A lady died in OKC recently when her storm shelter flooded. I also worry about air if a lot of debris is piled on top. Some companies can cut out a hole in your slab, say in your garage, but I would think the norm is something outside, between your two houses seem logical.

Above ground safe rooms can be built in the house and I've read of many folks surviving in them, I just have not heard of many people riding out a violent F5 in one, like the twister that hit Jarrell 18 years ago. If you remember, the Jarrell tornado wiped a small subdivision literally off the face of the earth. There was a 0% above ground survivability for homes directly hit by that storm, something that is almost unheard of in recent years with modern home construction. Pavement was torn off the ground, fields were ripped up 18 inches deep. Cars literally vanished. I would not take my chances above ground with an F5, and Jarrell showed that one can hit anywhere virtually north of Austin, but there had been ones worse in Goliad and Rocksprings. Waco and Lubbock have been hit by F5s too.

I'm sure somebody will say different and claim that a safe room could survive a Jarrel type twister. You just have to only think about a 2 ton projectile hurling at you 200 miles an hour and decide for yourself.


Whatever you go with, I would go with a really solid and reputable company and design.

More info on the Jarrell tornado:
http://extremeplanet.me/2012/06/26/...ost-intense-tornado-damage-ever-photographed/
http://extremeplanet.me/2012/07/01/...est-tornadoes-ever-recorded-damage-intensity/

 

[BRD@66]

We live about 10 miles (as the tornado & the crow flies) from Jarrell, TX. We bought our fraidy hole from a Jarrell dealer 10 yrs ago for about $2500, IIRC. 6'x7'x6 ft tall (I'm 6'2"). It's well made concrete. So far, so good

 

[bones_708]

I have not seen one in person, just saw someone in a video do one and didn't put much thought into it. You're right, they are sturdy as hell with vertical pressure, but it's just sheet metal holding back the earth and burying you alive unless you reinforce that thing.

It's not that hard to reenforce the sides to withstand the lateral pressure tho. Something as simple as stacking concrete bags and forming a retaining with them would do it. Placing steel pipe in the indentions along the walls will also strengthen them up quite a bit. The pipe thing used to be done when they used containers as blast shelters.

 

[shortround]

Why do soldiers dig in?

I know a fellow who has an underground reinforced concrete shelter complete with water, provisions, emergency medical supplies, disinfectants, cots, a toilet, and a filtered ventilation system and sump pump, among other things.

It is powered by a generator with its own air supply and exhaust system. He has a battery bank to complement the generator. The only defect I found in his contractor's work -- despite a reinforced steel entry door -- there is only one way in or out.

The "bunker" cost him more than his 2,400 square foot home. It gives him peace of mind, however.

Be well.

 

[Whistler]

Lots of good information, appreciate the input. I have an unused slab also, about 12' x 30' I currently just stack firewood on that would probably be where I'd put an above ground if I go that way. Thought about setting it up for an RV or possibly an outdoor kitchen for my BBQ, deer & hog prep and such but I think it's long enough for a safe room and either one of those also. I don't think I'll go so far as to setup a full blown bunker with generators and all, in fact this is not likely something I'd bother with were it not for my mother's concerns. What do most of you do about it? Not worried about it or already have one or a place to shelter?

 

[mitchntx]

What do most of you do about it? Not worried about it or already have one or a place to shelter?

I grew up in the Texas panhandle. I survived Lubbock's May, 1970 and Plainview's April 1973 tornados.
Most recently, I watched Granbury's May 2013 tornado skip just a mile away from my house.

I know that the folks in Jarrell suffered devastation beyond belief as did the folks near OKC.

But the reality is, huddled in an interior closet will do just fine for 85% of those tornados that directly hit your home.
And the likelihood of a direct hit is astronomical.

The reality is having enough warning to either get to the closet or run across the yard, totally exposed to all the flying debris, to get to the dungeon.

I also understand the insurmountable mountain you will have to climb calming the irrational fear of your mom.
She'll get in a car and be perfectly OK not wearing a seat belt, but a tornado will sweep her off to Oz.

I moved my parents into a duplex three doors down and it was worse than having a house full of toddlers.
Loved them dearly soul and God bless their soul. I miss them all each and every day.
But it was work ...

Good luck.

For a safe room, I would make sure the slab was properly built, with piers to properly anchor it.
If that is a standard 3" slab I wouldn't trust it for this purpose, even though the probability is so remote that you'd ever need it.

MHO

 

[F350-6]

I've got a storm shelter out back. It's the concrete type that's half buried under ground and half sticking up and covered with a mound of dirt so the top half is buried above ground level. The advantage there is it won't flood completely full.

Had a close call with a tornado about 20 years ago that convinced me to get one, and there's been several times since then we've used it. Most recently with the daughter, son in law and two grandkids when some tornadoes came through and did around $50k in damages to the place. Worth it's weight in gold that night and in the peace of mind I've had several times over.

The key with shelters is to remember what may fall or blow on top of the door. You don't want to be trapped inside because you buried it next to a tree that fell over. Also make sure that folks that don't live near you know you have it so they can come find you just in case.

These days it's also a good idea to test your cell phone signal from inside the shelter since that may not be ideal and you may want to figure out how to stay up to date on what's going on.

 

[Dawico]

When we lived in the country we remodeled our master closet and bathroom. I built a tornado shelter in our master closet. I built a few engineered designs with my dad's buddy so I knew what was needed. Plus my wife's clothes and shoes would be saved in the event of a storm.

It never got tested but was somewhat centrally located in the house so it had that added protection. On top of that it was somewhat hidden so I didn't have to worry about visitors every time it got windy.

 

[jocat54]

I have one--fiberglass buried in the ground with 3500lbs of concrete anchored on the bottom of it with whatever the weight of the soil is on top of that. We just put it in about 3 months ago--hope I never have to set foot in it (other than cleaning and supplied). It's just piece of mind for us. We just moved to east Texas about 4 months ago and the tornadoes of Van and Henderson hit--we are about 15 miles from Van as the crow flies. That was enough to convince me I wanted one.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I grew up in the Texas panhandle. I survived Lubbock's May, 1970 and Plainview's April 1973 tornados.
Most recently, I watched Granbury's May 2013 tornado skip just a mile away from my house.

I know that the folks in Jarrell suffered devastation beyond belief as did the folks near OKC.

But the reality is, huddled in an interior closet will do just fine for 85% of those tornados that directly hit your home.
And the likelihood of a direct hit is astronomical.

The reality is having enough warning to either get to the closet or run across the yard, totally exposed to all the flying debris, to get to the dungeon.

I also understand the insurmountable mountain you will have to climb calming the irrational fear of your mom.
She'll get in a car and be perfectly OK not wearing a seat belt, but a tornado will sweep her off to Oz.

I moved my parents into a duplex three doors down and it was worse than having a house full of toddlers.
Loved them dearly soul and God bless their soul. I miss them all each and every day.
But it was work ...

Good luck.

For a safe room, I would make sure the slab was properly built, with piers to properly anchor it.
If that is a standard 3" slab I wouldn't trust it for this purpose, even though the probability is so remote that you'd ever need it.

MHO

This pretty much sums it up if you live in an area that is statistically unlikely to have a major tornado. They have sites that will tell you how many tornadoes your area averages a year and some significant ones in about the past 100 years or so. If you live north of Austin all the way to Minnesota and are in an area that is pretty flat, just like it looks in Jarrell, you can take your chances, probably be okay, I just wouldn't, but that's me. Jarrell has hills around it near 35 but the area the tornado went through is like flat prairie land. I live in a hilly area that isn't very tornado prone. Tornadoes can hit anywhere but the strongest ones in pretty flat areas. I still might invest in a safe room though. In the 50s an F4 hit near the San Antonio airport, wasn't much out there then, but now the area is heavily populated and it might have cause many deaths if it happened today. An F3 hit less than 10 miles from where I live back then too. As I said before, Goliad and Rocksprings were almost completely destroyed by tornadoes in the past.

You don't know where the next big one will hit, and if you live in an area that might be prone, a shelter might be something to think about if you have the means.

As for the 85% comment. All I can say is maybe you're right. Maybe 85% of robbery victims are unharmed or 85% of people in mass shootings survive, doesn't mean you want to be passive about it. Thankfully some of the people in the Double Creek subdivision who got in their cars and took off before the Jarrell tornado hit didn't have your mentality. In one of the F5s that hit Moore, there also was a higher survivability rate of folks who drove off in cars. Do what you think is best I guess.

 

[baboon]

One possibility I've seen others do is to bury a half size shipping container.

Not a good idea as they were never meant to be buried. Once buried they stand a good chance of collapsing under pressure.

 

[mitchntx]

you can take your chances, probably be okay, I just wouldn't, but that's me.

Yup and everyone has a threshold of risk.

Being robbed, going down in a plane crash, eating tainted Blue Bell, minimums on car insurance, wearing a bike helmet, swept away by an F5 tornado, prepping for the zombie apocalypse ... folks pick their level of risk, either rational or irrational, they are willing to assume. There is generally a price tag with the less risk one assumes and it goes up exponentially as the risk increments down.

The 85% number I used was a guess of how many tornadoes that occur which are NOT F5 in strength.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I have one--fiberglass buried in the ground with 3500lbs of concrete anchored on the bottom of it with whatever the weight of the soil is on top of that. We just put it in about 3 months ago--hope I never have to set foot in it (other than cleaning and supplied). It's just piece of mind for us. We just moved to east Texas about 4 months ago and the tornadoes of Van and Henderson hit--we are about 15 miles from Van as the crow flies. That was enough to convince me I wanted one.

Care to share the cost, & is there a website for your purchase?

 

[JohnnyLoco]

The 85% number I used was a guess of how many tornadoes that occur which are NOT F5 in strength.

I got you. I think it is more like 99%, pretty unlikely. But still, folks in Jarrell had tornado sirens for a reason and had been hit by a pretty bad one about ten years earlier. Before May 3rd, 1999, few F5s had hit Oklahoma. There has been several bad ones since, one hit the Moore area again. Hell, they got hit by a pretty bad one when I was up there last May. I'm just saying that if you live in areas that have been hit by some big ones and that have a high frequency of tornadoes every year, pretty much DFW area and north, it's just a matter of time brother. Waco and central Texas is prone too, but maybe not as high, with those strong ones being rare occurrences. I still would rather be prepared.