Setup a Small automated workshop

[ROGER4314]

.45 LC is .45 Long Colt for the cowboy revolvers, Bond Derringers and some lever action rifles. It's a straight sided, rimmed case similar to the .44 magnum.

It's good that you knew those answers but why didn't you let the new reloader find the answers and learn how to retrieve the data himself? I'm a teacher and a technician. That's what I do.

Flash

 

[TexasRedneck]

no such thing as .45LC (I hope that was a trick),

The point is that ammunition is a commodity and it isn't necessary to know everything about it to make that commodity, even a great example of that commodity. You could hand kusai an excellent tooling setup, top notch components, and he could manufacture ammunition as good as many people who spend years futzing with their loads. No different than any other commodity market at the core.

Sorry - but complete and total fail within your post......not knowing what you're doing is a recipe for disaster - and someone gettin' killed/maimed/injured.

 

[ROGER4314]

Thanks TXR! Me thinks we have a troll on the line.

We try to help all new shooters and reloaders. Our OP asked for opinions and we gave some helpful advice which he can evaluate, accept or reject. I don't know it all but I learn new things every friggin' day. I started loading in the 1960's and I suppose you could train a monkey to reload in that amount of time.

When a guy wants to step out in a professional, liability intense venture, we need to warn him about some of the traps he will deal with. That's what we did.

For the OP....here's a link to Dillon. They have a great product and are terrific folks but only one of many fine companies with good products available.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/

To our troll..................Please, try to help him instead of ragging on your fellow members.

Flash

 

[TexasRedneck]

That was my concern - as with so much other stuff, there's LOTS involved in ANY business venture that escapes the casual observer.

Many years ago, I thought about getting into a dive air tank refill business. Guy was already set up and runnin', and offered me a 51% "stake" in the business at a cash price that was almost free. I was literally at the bank drawing the money when one of the VP's came up to say "Hi", and we discussed some things, and I mentioned what I was getting ready to do. He suggested I do a few things before committing, which I did......and saved myself getting into the middle of a huge lawsuit. Turns out the guy wasn't doing things properly, such as using equipment rated for the application (breathing air). He was cutting corners, and it bit him AND the guy he got to ultimately partner with him. He didn't have anything much to begin with anyway, but his partner lost essentially everything he had.

 

[ROGER4314]

Being a 1911 shooter for most of my life, I thought back on some of the KB's (KABOOMS!) that I've seen or read about.

When the 1911 has a catastrophic failure, high pressure gas goes down the magazine well and explodes the grips. Of course, your hand is the next stop to receive the blast and debris. If one of your reloads hurts a shooter like that, you'll see a courtroom over it.

When I was a kid, were were gathered around a girl who was handing out free candy. Two neighbor boys were playing with a suction cup tipped bow and arrow set. They had removed the suction cup from the arrow. They let fly with the arrow and it hit that girl in the eye. Her scream still echos in my head! Of course, the eye was destroyed. I was called as a witness in court EIGHT FRIGGN' YEARS LATER! How would you like to have a liability case hanging over your head for eight years? That's where you'd be after a screw up like a double charge of Bullseye on the 1911 KB.

Flash

 

[cleric]

Google reloading room and under the videos there is a video of a commercial outfit's setup

 

[kusai]

Thanks guys,

Any and all suggestions have helped improve the research. Just to clarify my point of starting to reload is to have fun and learn something new, I m just getting bored of ordering ammo online and I am absolutely not looking for a cheaper options. Secondly I just saw a video on youtube yesterday where the guy had setup some automation which gave me this idea. Thirdly I have been a forum junkie for the past 10 years now and I always turn to forums for help on any new subject since there are more experts, opinions, experienced ppl.

 

[Deavis]

Sorry - but complete and total fail within your post......not knowing what you're doing is a recipe for disaster - and someone gettin' killed/maimed/injured.

Interesting, would anyone like to debate the points of my post or just resort to name calling? For those of you who think there is such a thing as 45LC, I want you to go to the SAAMI Z299 spec and find me the entry for 45 Long Colt. Go find it for me, I'll even front you the link for SAAMI to get started

Be careful who you call a troll and don't mistake my direct style of communication as raging on other members. Just because my take on the OP is different doesn't make it wrong, you are free to disagree but how about you debate the points instead of name calling? I also said it is clear he lacks experience but that shortcomin could be cured, especially in this market if he so chooses since the information to load is readily available to him. Of course, running a successful business is another matter completely, but I already addressed some of that.

 

[Deavis]

Good luck kusai, keep researching and asking questions. I'm always happy to give you advice and if you want more information on automation or commercial aspects of the business, don't hesitate to ask. There are some other very helpful forums for the basics of loading, thehighroad is one of the most active. There is also a book published by the NRA (have to look on my shelf, can't remember who wrote it) that talks about commercial ammo making. It is interesting more for the scale and ideas rather than concrete advice on a venture.

 

[ROGER4314]

Here's link to buy some of that .45 LC ammo.

Ammunition To Go : 50rds - 45 Long Colt DRS 255gr. Lead Round Nose Ammo [DRS45LC255RNL] - $29.95

The true name is .45 Colt but it is frequently mistaken for the .45 acp so they always refer to it as .45 LONG Colt. When someone uses books and the 'Net for their information, if all the "i's" aren't dotted or "t's" crossed, the information isn't found. Life experience will help fill that gap.

Be careful who you call a troll and don't mistake my direct style of communication as "raging" on other members.

Your style isn't direct. It's rude, and argumentative. The definition of "troll" is someone who posts for the purpose of starting a fight. We are all friends and fellow members here. We help each other. Got no time for trolls.

Incidentally, Ragging (another term for griping) has 2 "G's". "Raging" is out of control ranting which may have been the correct call after all. I accept your version.

Sorry.................... I'm a "direct" but very polite person............

Flash

 

[Deavis]

So with all the talk about the danger in loading and how precise and accurate one must be to avoid the maiming, the killing, and the injuries that could come from not dotting those i's ad crossing those t's, we'll just ignore that when it is convenient, i.e. Long Colt. "They" that you refer to is a internet ammunition dealer, not SAAMI or any member of it that publishes loading manuals that I am aware of. That illustrates my point perfectly and I'm sorry you think I'm rude and aggressive, that's your choice but I think my points are valid and well illustrated.


I will admit that I do hope to spur debate, as someone with a background in engineering and quite a bit of experience in this field, it can be difficult to make points to people who aren't used to thinking like an engineer, which is many times very direct and results driven, which is often mistaken as controversial. Either your idea or point is right, wrong, or you need more data. Nothing in between, that is for managers playing at engineering.

 

[TexasRedneck]

For someone with a background in engineering, one would think that the first thing you do is learn to speak the venecular of the field you're dealing with - and in guns, "Long Colt" is a standard term with specific meaning. Your "point" is not valid - if anything, it diverts attention IMO. And my reloading manuals (of which I have several to say the least) list "long colt" as well....

 

[shortround]

Yeah, that isn't so true. There is money to be made in the market. Remember, kusai, you aren't competing against major ammo companies in their market, especially if your product line uses fired casings. If your business model is to compete with only new casings, well... you either failed economics or can't do math. There are plenty of ways to make money outside the niche market but you have to be smart and take advantage of every benefit a small business has over a large established business.



I've seen you post that before and the story in the other thread was that you weighed every cartridge and they showed too much variation in your opinion. That was different from the charge weight and when I asked, you didn't post back, so I'm happy to see that information come out. While 2.7gr is completely unacceptable, the fact that data didn't match a load manual isn't too odd. You have no idea what powder the manufacturer used and if he was of a decent size (ordering powder in at least 1000lb per order), he was probably using canister powder. Who made that ammo? Please share, I'm curious.



Not important (what does OCR stand for?), 7000 (easily found online), no such thing as .45LC (I hope that was a trick), mouth/rim, and distance from a chambering datum to the bolt face. Now, go ask the people who run most of the machines producing very complex objects, such as a plasma television how the object they make works. Go ask an LCD line worker why the electrodes in the display are transparent, is it the metal workfunction or its atomic mass (trick question). Can you explain how to produce digressive burning powder versus progressive with coatings and then with physical manupulation? How about explaining how electron mobility translates into frequency that is available to process this webpage and the layers of the protocol, which you must name, that brought you this message.

The point is that ammunition is a commodity and it isn't necessary to know everything about it to make that commodity, even a great example of that commodity. You could hand kusai an excellent tooling setup, top notch components, and he could manufacture ammunition as good as many people who spend years futzing with their loads. No different than any other commodity market at the core. That is why kids with very little machining experience can run a CNC mill and produce parts of superior quality to the "old hand" sitting over there laughing at them right before he gets his pink slip. That is the beauty of a commodity market, for better or worse.

The engineering has already been done for the business he is probably looking to get into, but since we haven't given him much time to get his full plan out, maybe I'm wrong. Its clear the experience is lacking, but that is easily acquired and I don't think he is suggesting that he's going to buy a press tomorrow and throw out his shingle.

Happy to hear from you. Don't recall your original question, but happy to have answered it.

Sad fact is I purchased some ammo from a gun show vendor, and that ammo was, by weight, not safe to shoot.

It matters not what powder was used to load the ammo: That the assembled components did not weigh anywhere near any minimum-maximum propellant/projectile combinations listed in FIVE of my reloading manuals was enough cause to condemn the rounds.

I don't have a degree in science, engineering, or physics, but do know that the most educated often have the least common sense.

 

[ROGER4314]

The place is a lot nicer when we try to get along.

Flash

 

[ROGER4314]

You didn't have info about the powder used but you could sure tell the propellant charge varied wildly. I'd say that your conclusion was right on the money. QC on that ammo sucked!

I posed this in the reloading thread (I think) but it may fit here as well.

Take one round and place it on your digital scale. Hit the "Tare" button. Then check the rest of the rounds one at a time. The scale will give you a +2, +3, -2 weight as compared to that sample round. The goal is to locate a heavy (perhaps double) charge or a light (squib) load. You don't need to know the actual charge to find a relatively light or heavy one.

Incidentally, Midway USA has a sale on a digital scale for $26. I have two digitals and a beam scale but I thought I'd try one. It's a winner and it may be my favorite! My RCBS digital cost about 4 times what the Midway scale cost. I'll snag a link and post it.

Mini Digital Reloading Scale 750 Grain Capacity

When I use my RCBS scale, it requires some warm up time before it settles down and gives stable measurement. This little scale is stable right out of the box. I like it!

Flash

 

[RobertP]

Glad to hear that Roger. I bought a cheapo scale years ago that was junk but it wasnt from midway. I then got the rcbs and love the thing.

 

[ROGER4314]

I will admit that I do hope to spur debate, as someone with a background in engineering and quite a bit of experience in this field, it can be difficult to make points to people who aren't used to thinking like an engineer, which is many times very direct and results driven, which is often mistaken as controversial.

Whatever your point may be, I will not allow you to draw me into a fight.

I spent my entire working life working and then teaching Engineering related topics. I'm a battle hardened technician who has put everything on the line to make a product or process viable. I know what pressure is and my ass has been on the line to make a process work almost every day. Feel free to check my profile.

Respectfully, you sound like a fresh Engineering graduate. You'll settle down after you deal with a few welders or rig hands.

PLEASE don't get me started on "Engineer" stories/jokes!

We all just get along, here and I offer my hand in friendship.

Flash

 

[GaryH]

Letting anybody else shoot your reloads isn't a good idea. No matter how careful someone is, mistakes can happen, and people can get hurt.

Anybody that shoots knows what a .45 long colt is even though some may assume the correct name to be .45 colt. There used to be a .45 short colt as well as the .45 long colt. That's probably where the name came from.

Some people are fussy about calling a magazine a clip, but that's not worth getting into an argument about. We all know what they mean when they say a clip for my 1911.

 

[ROGER4314]

Good call! I looked up the 45 short. It's actually called the .45 S&W and was brought out for the S&W Schofield hinged frame (tip up) revolver. It was recently revived to supply the cowboy action shooters with ammo and is currently manufactured.

To return to the OP, a little knowledge can be disastrous in reloading. There is a difference between a .45ACP and a .45GAP. Making a mistake in charge tables between a .44 Special and a .44 Magnum or confusing tables for .357 Magnum and .357 SIG could ruin your day.

Flash

 

[shortround]

Good call! I looked up the 45 short. It's actually called the .45 S&W and was brought out for the S&W Schofield hinged frame (tip up) revolver. It was recently revived to supply the cowboy action shooters with ammo and is currently manufactured.

To return to the OP, a little knowledge can be disastrous in reloading. There is a difference between a .45ACP and a .45GAP. Making a mistake in charge tables between a .44 Special and a .44 Magnum or confusing tables for .357 Magnum and .357 SIG could ruin your day.

Flash

We were never allowed to "swag" a charge in the projectiles we shot.

Had to take into consideration the "Square Weight" of a projectile, powder temperature, atmospheric conditions, deviation from standard muzzle velocity, rotation of the earth, and position of the gun relative to the target.

Ballistic Engineers have spent countless hours to predict a "first-round" hit.

In reloading, we don't necessarily consider all the interior and exterior ballistics involved, but we do adhere to safe reloading practices and adjust from there.

Reloading is first and foremost about "interior" ballistics, then progresses to exterior ballistics based on experimentation and practical results.