SEPERATING HEAD STAMPS

[Deavis]

Case volume depends on manufacturer, this has been beaten quite a bit. Here is one link with H2O by headstamp.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=318330

Morale, know your brass not common "wisdom"

 

[Dawico]

I don't doubt that. What I am interested in though is a cite to the specs that substantiate that assertion. All other measurable specs of these rounds are easy to come by but I have yet to find the spec that defines wall thickness as being different between the two. To change the wall thickness on otherwise identical cases would have one of two, or a combination of two outcomes (with very few exceptions, none that I am aware of): either you would increase the external dimensions of the case or you would decrease the internal volume of the case. If there is another option I am interested in hearing that too.

In my quick search I did not find a spec for wall thickness either, whether it be for military or commercial brass.

The easiest way to tell is filling them with water and weighing the water. There are many places to find those comparisons and they are based on the external dimensions being equal.

 

[Dawico]

This statement seems to indicate that you believe that the internal volume of these two cases are spec'd the same? If that is the case do you assert that the external dimensions of the two cases are spec'd different? If not, where does the extra space for the thicker wall come from? I have seen specs (from different sources) for internal volume and external dimensions on both of these cases and they all appear to be functionally identical.

I am not trying to argue or even make a definitive assertion here. I am just going on what info I have been able to find so far and I don't like to see inaccurate info floating around on such a "safety sensitive" topic as reloading. I am honestly interested in learning the details on this subject from sources...without too much of a thread-jack.

I worded that poorly. The cases are spec'd to be the same externally. The difference between the cases is wall thickness causing internal volume variances.

But the different internal volume is not what causes the difference in pressure between .223 and 5.56. They are loaded to different specs.

Also, like anything for reloading, when you are loading full pressure rounds and you change one componant, you have to drop down the powder charge and work up again.

 

[robocop10mm]

Reloading has its perks, especially if you are OCD.

With brass, some brass has a different wall thickness. .223 v. 5.56 for example. 5.56 will have a higher pressure compared to a .223. Same bullet, same powder and charge and same primer. This is because the 5.56 brass is thicker.

Anealing the brass after X number of firings.

Bullet seating depth is very important to know, not only for accuracy but for safety. Do NOT let that bullet rest against the lands and grooves!
!

No so. I have weighed cases from a variety of makers and find more difference between Winchester-Remington-Federal, etc than I do between .223 and 5.56mm.

Annealing is important. I anneal everything larger than .223/5.56mm. Properly annealed brass will be more accurate.

Not necessarily. Different guns will prefer the bullet to be different distances from the rifling. Some may actually shoot better with the bullet just touching the rifling. Others may like a few thou of "jump" before the bullet hits rifling.

 

[Rifleman55]

Every reloader should have a chronograph one can be bought for around $100, it can save you a lot of guessing, I found that not all .223 brass is the same, US made is very close, I picked up some foreign made and when I loaded a test batch the velocity was quite a bit higher than the identical load in federal .223, and 5.56 military brass. The foreign made also showed signs of high pressure.

 

[shortround]

Brass segregation by head stamp is a good thing (while noting how many times each case was reloaded).

It would even be better if the lot number were printed on the cases.

There is so much variation between manufacturers and lots, that the best you can do is keep cases separate.

Even for casual shooting, you might find a group of brass no longer worthy of reloading.

If those cases are mixed in with your entire supply of brass, it will be a mess to sort out.

I look at it from a view of safety, not so much accuracy.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Interesting that no one pointed out to the OP that there are other variables when reloading. Pressure can affect powder measuring and internal pressure when bullet is seated. So can air temperature and humidity. Same thing when you fire. I was amazed at how temperature along affected loads.

Any who... There is a difference between brass absolutely, but I've mostly noticed it being by manufacturer, not necessarily between milsurp and commercial. How accurate are you really looking for? Are you looking for 1" groups or less? Then out of most things to do, as long as you remain as consistent as possible in your process, components aren't going to make too much of a difference. Wanting .25" groups at 300 yds? Well thats when you get detailed and you don't buy used brass, you buy new and only one kind and never mix and match and go do things like anneal your brass for utmost consistency (which is all accuracy really is).

 

[robocop10mm]

Weigh each case. Weight equates to thickness which equates to volume and pressure. Segregate by weight.

Anneal the necks. Consistent hardness/softness relates to bullet pull and bullet release on firing which affects pressure and thus accuracy.

De-burr the flash hole. Consistent flame spread gives more consistent pressure, pressure curve and accuracy.

Trim to the same length. Length affects crimp and pressure.

Use benchrest primers. More consistent flame

Weigh powder charges.

Weigh bullets. Some may have wide ranging weights.

Use a comparator to determine how close to the rifling the bullet is seated. Experiment with your rifle to determine how far off the rifling the bullet should be loaded. Different barrels like different lengths.

Eliminate variables. All the above will affect accuracy. As stated, temperature and humidity as well as elevation will affect accuracy. A load tested at 75 degrees, 40% humidity at 350 ft above sea level will shoot differently at 30 degrees. 20% humidity at 1200 feet above sea level.

 

[picker]

Im not looking for 1" groups at 50 yds. with a stock Glock, 6" will be fine.
I did separate some Brass and did some more testing, the difference wasn't dramatic but it was definetly better, and almost good enough I think I need to practice now that I aint all over the target it's obvious Im pulling left.
Anyway thanks for the advice men, I think I will shoot separated brass while hunting a few favorite loads and then just go back to shooting mixed head stamps.
Good luck

 

[Charlie]

Separating pistol brass would be the last thing I'd worry about regarding accuracy. If it's not visibly damaged and within specs on case length it's good to go as far as I'm concerned.

 

[picker]

see below

 

[picker]

Separating pistol brass would be the last thing I'd worry about regarding accuracy. If it's not visibly damaged and within specs on case length it's good to go as far as I'm concerned.

Well time permitting you and I will hafta shoot a little and settle this HS issue you bring the sipping whiskey cause after the powders through burning for the day Im gonna be thirsty[smile] and my old front porch has seated many an ole geezer with opinionated views[smile]
Best/joe

 

[Charlie]

Yer' repeating yourself! Yeah, we need to do that sometime. I guess I should clarify one thing .................... "my" accuracy won't change enough to matter as I'm not that good a shot with a pistol.

 

[picker]

Well it oughta be a fair match then,,,,,,,,,,,,Someday, plan on it maybe after the holidays.
Best/joe

 

[picker]

I forgot to mention one other varible in my previous posts and that is in addition to sorting the Head stamps I used a magnum primer ?<br>best/joe

 

[Mensch]

If it's for pistols or any bulk shooting, I never bother with it. If I'm working up special hunting loads or something for accuracy/speed/power, I always remain consistent in my brass/powder/primers, but they usually go in a segregated box and get a little permanent marker on the case head for extra color coding.
The only thing I specifically separate is 7.62x51/.308, because I make two different general loadings, lighter 147-150gr rounds for military guns, FAL/PTR/M1A, and then heavy 175+ loads for bolt guns.
My method, my madness.