Selling Pistols....

[Bithabus]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
This looks pretty clear to me. I don't understand where you're coming from.

That is an incomplete paraphrasing of the law. I quoted the actual law, above.

 

[Charlie]

I would respectfully disagree with your interpretation. I will not ship on a common carrier without notifying them because UPS has indicated to me they must, by law, be notified. Right or wrong, there's going to be trouble if they find it and they were not notified.

 

[Bithabus]

I would respectfully disagree with your interpretation. I will not ship on a common carrier without notifying them because UPS has indicated to me they must, by law, be notified. Right or wrong, there's going to be trouble if they find it and they were not notified.

That's not my interpretation; that's the law.

 

[M. Sage]

I'm still not seeing anything in there that says you can ship it without notification to the carrier.

Does it say you can't? If a law doesn't prohibit something, then that action is legal.

 

[Charlie]

Good luck with clandestine shipping of your handguns, guys.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Lawd....that's why I hate dealing w/law - it says what it doesn't say in 14 different ways....

Bottom line - (if I have this correct) - if you're shipping Intrastate, the requirements of notification and shipping methods simply don't apply from what I can see - because Federal Commerce law doesn't apply.

Is that it?

 

[Bithabus]

Good luck with clandestine shipping of your handguns, guys.

No luck is required. I've done it several times in the past 2 years.

Lawd....that's why I hate dealing w/law - it says what it doesn't say in 14 different ways....

Bottom line - (if I have this correct) - if you're shipping Intrastate, the requirements of notification and shipping methods simply don't apply from what I can see - because Federal Commerce law doesn't apply.

Is that it?

Shipping method is just company policy at UPS and FedEx. But if they don't know there is a gun in the box they can't force you to use the most expensive shipping. Intrastate you are not required to notify, as you say, but you still can't ship a handgun USPS intrastate.

 

[Robmoo]

How can you know with certainty that the handgun you ship isn't heading out of state? These carriers have sorting centers all over and I'm sometimes quite surprised to find out where a package stopped on it's route to me. I'd rather pay my FFL to handle it. It is unfortunate that all people don't have a FFL as reasonable as mine.

 

[speedy223]

i just ran into this today in UPS, i declared like a good boy (since it is required) then they refused to send it. I asked for the policies and they could not show me where the company prohibited it. in fact ups policy stated the contrary. but it did not matter. they still refused. I came home and ranted on here on a post a few lines up... .lol. then was chastised (probably deservedly) for wordiness/incoherency..lol.. it is obviously not my day.. i think i will open a beer and call it a day.. .

 

[Bithabus]

How can you know with certainty that the handgun you ship isn't heading out of state? These carriers have sorting centers all over and I'm sometimes quite surprised to find out where a package stopped on it's route to me. I'd rather pay my FFL to handle it. It is unfortunate that all people don't have a FFL as reasonable as mine.

If I'm sending a package from one point in Texas to another I have not delivered that package for shipment in interstate commerce.

i just ran into this today in UPS, i declared like a good boy (since it is required) then they refused to send it. I asked for the policies and they could not show me where the company prohibited it. in fact ups policy stated the contrary. but it did not matter. they still refused. I came home and ranted on here on a post a few lines up... .lol. then was chastised (probably deservedly) for wordiness/incoherency..lol.. it is obviously not my day.. i think i will open a beer and call it a day.. .

Did you read this thread? Good chance it wasn't required.

 

[Chrs2fer23]

Well...this has been a very unclear thread...I'm still not comfortable with the notion of NOT informing the carrier of the firearm and telling them it's something else since Fed law seems to require it. If the need arises, I think I will just use an FFL to mail it to another FFL. This methods seems to be the safest, less frustrating, and most legal to me. Speedy223's thread with his UPS experience more or less sums up my expectations with UPS. Thanks all for the info.....as always, the law is a bitch to decipher and the inability of us common folk (non-lawyer type people like myself) to easily understand it clearly, makes following it very difficult. And then there is the whole issue with businesses not educating their employees of the laws that govern their business.

 

[Charlie]

I agree. The premise that if one cannot find something that states it's illegal, then it is legal. I'm not 100% comfortable with that line of thought. Regarding federal laws, I would much rather err on the side of caution than just take my chances. That way if you are incorrect, you just have more hassle sending something, but if it is illegal and you get caught, it's probably going to cost you a great deal of grief and a lot of money. Just my two bits.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Actually, it IS correct - if it's not spelled out as being illegal, it's legal. There does NOT have to be a rule for EVERYTHING - that's what gotten us INTO this mess, folks!

 

[Charlie]

I don't thing anyone is advocating more rules, just make whatever laws there are more clear.

 

[wgsigs]

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

That's not my interpretation; that's the law.

Bithabus, you can call it something other than interpretation, but the section of code you quoted does not say what you "think" it says. It says it is against the law to ship firearms interstate by common carrier except to a dealer, FFL, etc. and the carrier must be notified. It does NOT say that if you are shipping to a regular citizen, i.e., NOT a dealer, FFL, etc, that you don't have to notify the carrier.

 

[wgsigs]

This is my reading of the pertinent laws regarding the shipment of handguns:

- A non-FFL holder may never use the USPS to send handguns.
- Non-FFL holders may ship to another non-FFL holder who resides within the same state as himself (intrastate) using a common carrier, e.g., Fed-Ex or UPS, and must notify them
- A non-FFL holder may ship interstate, but it MUST be to an FFL and it must be by a common carrier, not USPS, and the carrier must be notified.
- A non-FFL can use an FFL holder on his side, who can ship via USPS. Sometimes this can be cheaper if the FFL does not charge too high a fee to perform the shipment AND you would have used the exorbitant overnight shipment method that the carrier's corporate policies require you to use once you have declared the firearm as you are legally required to do.

 

[SpikeTX]

cant you just break it down and call it parts?

 

[randmplumbingllc]

Problem solved.......become an FFL !

 

[Bithabus]

Bithabus, you can call it something other than interpretation, but the section of code you quoted does not say what you "think" it says. It says it is against the law to ship firearms interstate by common carrier except to a dealer, FFL, etc. and the carrier must be notified. It does NOT say that if you are shipping to a regular citizen, i.e., NOT a dealer, FFL, etc, that you don't have to notify the carrier.

You have misread. I'll quote again:

it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

 

[wgsigs]

You have misread. I'll quote again: it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

What your highlighted text says is, it is against the law to take a gun to a common carrier for shipment out of state WITHOUT telling (written notice) the carrier it is a gun, i.e., you have to tell them it is a gun, which is exactly what the FAQ says.