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  • RstyShcklfrd

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    I think I'm posting this in the right section, but I'm not entirely sure.

    Basically, I was asked a question about a particular scenario with which I didn't know how to answer.

    The other day my girlfriend was in her room of her apartment, when she heard two men in the living room. She walks out there and one of the two men immediately makes the comment, "Oh, there's another one." Apparently, what had happened was two men were trying to sell magazines and when her roommate opened the door to ask them what they were there for, the two men pushed there way in to sit down in the living room. Throughout this the men are making passes towards her roommate and being very aggressive. My girlfriend had enough nerve to tell them they needed to leave, and luckily they did. She called me immediately after, and explained all of this to me. I told her she should've called the police immediately, and then call me immediately after that.

    Now here is the question I was presented with. I'm not sure what would happen, and I'm not looking to get flamed for asking this either - as this is not something I would do. If she were to call me after calling the police, and I were to show up with either my shotgun or my pistol(because I live down the street and could easily be there quicker than the local police department), not brandishing the pistol or shotgun in an aggressive manner(ie. shotgun is on it's sling over my shoulder, me not pointing a gun at them), and they make an attempt to attack me if I were to engage them what would the end result be?

    I didn't know how to answer that. I mean I could see how that could easily be considered murder, but in all fairness I was protecting a loved one and myself after she had called the police. This might be a dumb question, but to be honest the answer is not obvious to me.
    Lynx Defense
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    Also I would like to add that this incident has now made my girlfriend want a gun as well as her chl. I guess it took something bad almost happening to convince her rather than me nagging her to death.
     

    Angered_Kabar

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    Pistol, I don't think it will be an issue if you aren't brandishing it. Shotgun or rifle slung over your shoulder? Might be a problem if a cop shows up and thinks you are trying to stir some shit up.
     

    txinvestigator

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    This sounds too odd. The circumstances do no seem real to me.

    But to your question, and I hope you don't get or feel flamed for asking, you would not know whaty actually happened. Could the roomate have invited the men in then changed her story to appease your girlfriend?

    You use the phrase, "attack me". In what manner? Were they armed, were they slapping you in the face?

    Regarding taking a weapon with you.....based on what your GF TOLD you I would have gone armed also, but I would not have become aggressive or even confrontational with the men if I knew the police were enroute. My weapon would be concealed. I would just be there to be sure everything stayed safed until arrival of the police.

    You should google Texas Penal Code chapter 9, to see when it is justified to use deadly force.

    But to be honest, I am not buying the story.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Dang! That's some crazy idiots right there. If they just pushed their way in the house, that could be a fatal mistake for those two fools sooner or later. I got a feeling they wont be doing that very long.
    If your not invited in someones home, your tresspassing. The aggressive way they presented themselves could easy be considered as attempted robbery. Even during the day, you have use of force against robbery.
    It's not too smart to go to someones home bullying your way in the door!
    Look up the use of force laws and read them. There isnt much of that kind of crap that you have to put up with.
    Does your girlfriend have a gun?

    There was some guy's running around here for a while selling degreaser that acted like that. They didnt feel welcome at my place.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    Angered_Kabar - Here is another issue that I get a lot of "that's illegal" comments on, I'm only 20. I have owned 1 pistol that I bought through a private sale here in Texas. I feel like had I owned a pistol at the time (which at the moment I don't own) and this were to happen I would have been the "bad guy" so to speak.

    txinvestigator - I was hoping you would post, as I have read a LOT of your posts even before I've joined TGT. Now the situation is real, I did leave out some details I didn't think were all too important. They live in a college apartment complex, so there are also 2 other roommates that weren't there. The roommate that was there made the assumption that the men were another roommate's friends. To be honest, the roommate is not a smart girl - at least common sense/"street smarts" wise. The men didn't PHYSICALLY push her out of the way to get in, but apparently said, "we need to write stuff down," and then opened the door further walking past her. My girlfriend also made the comment that the men were heavily tattooed, with one having a tattoo tear. Now, had my girlfriend been the person to respond she would not have opened the door as she's not stupid. Based on what you've said, let's make the assumption they're not armed(at least from first glance), and that they advance at me in a manner that I can assume they're intent is to harm me physically.

    And to your statement, "but I would not have become aggressive or even confrontational with the men if I knew the police were enroute." that is what I figured. I know better than to instigate a fight when there are alternative options(ie. asking them to leave politely).

    I know that I've made quite a few assumptions, but since this didn't actually happen and hopefully never does, all I can do is assume.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    Dang! That's some crazy idiots right there. If they just pushed their way in the house, that could be a fatal mistake for those two fools sooner or later. I got a feeling they wont be doing that very long.
    If your not invited in someones home, your tresspassing. The aggressive way they presented themselves could easy be considered as attempted robbery. Even during the day, you have use of force against robbery.
    It's not too smart to go to someones home bullying your way in the door!
    Look up the use of force laws and read them. There isnt much of that kind of crap that you have to put up with.
    Does your girlfriend have a gun?

    There was some guy's running around here for a while selling degreaser that acted like that. They didnt feel welcome at my place.

    She doesn't have a gun, but soon she will. Hopefully.

    Had this happened at my place of residence, their plan would NOT have worked as smoothly. I personally know better than this, especially with the area we live in. Around here, the criminals like to prey on the college students so I have taken appropriate measures to protect myself and my roommates.
     

    DrBart2

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    "
    Regarding taking a weapon with you.....based on what your GF TOLD you I would have gone armed also, but I would not have become aggressive or even confrontational with the men if I knew the police were enroute. My weapon would be concealed. I would just be there to be sure everything stayed safed until arrival of the police."

    My thoughts exactly. Tell your GF and others to stop opening the door to people she doesn't know, even during the day. Get a peep hole.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    There is no way their alleged actions could be considered a robbery. It is CLEARLY not a deadly force situation as described.

    Yeah when she first told me, had things gone wrong, I don't believe robbery would've been their intentions as much as a sexual assault/rape. When my girl made the comment, "I was scared, those two men could've easily over powered us," it gave me chills.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Read chapter 9 over and over. Then ask questions on anything thats unclear. Here's a link

    Texas Constitution and Statutes - Home

    Having the rifle isnt a problem, just dont get into something you dont want to commit to finishing.
    And tell her and her roomy to get some damn guns! Go learn how to use them. Shotguns are first class home defense. Handguns are for shooting your way to the shotgun. If interested, I might be able to get up there and let em try out some special guns I have.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    "
    Regarding taking a weapon with you.....based on what your GF TOLD you I would have gone armed also, but I would not have become aggressive or even confrontational with the men if I knew the police were enroute. My weapon would be concealed. I would just be there to be sure everything stayed safed until arrival of the police."

    My thoughts exactly. Tell your GF and others to stop opening the door to people she doesn't know, even during the day. Get a peep hole.

    Like I said, her roommate is not as bright when it comes to things like this as there IS a peep hole. I guess she was too trusting of individuals, but I'm sure this has changed the way she will react to something like this again. I know had my girlfriend been the one to get the door she would not have opened the door, based on the appearance of the two men.
     

    txinvestigator

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    txinvestigator - I was hoping you would post, as I have read a LOT of your posts even before I've joined TGT. Now the situation is real, I did leave out some details I didn't think were all too important. They live in a college apartment complex, so there are also 2 other roommates that weren't there. The roommate that was there made the assumption that the men were another roommate's friends. To be honest, the roommate is not a smart girl - at least common sense/"street smarts" wise. The men didn't PHYSICALLY push her out of the way to get in, but apparently said, "we need to write stuff down," and then opened the door further walking past her.
    The story changes. Frankly, I suspect the men were invited in by the girl who is not smart, then decided she made a bad decision. Unfortunately, since your GF was in another room at the time, we will never know.
    Based on what you've said, let's make the assumption they're not armed(at least from first glance), and that they advance at me in a manner that I can assume they're intent is to harm me physically.
    You can only use deadly force when you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to protect yourself from the other's use or attempted use of UNLAWFUL deadly force. You need to see chapter 9 to learn what those terms mean.

    I know that I've made quite a few assumptions, but since this didn't actually happen and hopefully never does, all I can do is assume.
    Didn't happen? Then I'm out. Made up oddball scenarios are a waste of time.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Yeah when she first told me, had things gone wrong, I don't believe robbery would've been their intentions as much as a sexual assault/rape. When my girl made the comment, "I was scared, those two men could've easily over powered us," it gave me chills.

    You mean the made up girlfriend? Since this didn't happen?
     

    MR Redneck

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    Yeah when she first told me, had things gone wrong, I don't believe robbery would've been their intentions as much as a sexual assault/rape. When my girl made the comment, "I was scared, those two men could've easily over powered us," it gave me chills.

    Read the chapter 9 and remember her comment. That right there gave her just cause.
    The good thing is they left, but the way they entered was already just cause enough for me to blow em back out the door!
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    You mean the made up girlfriend? Since this didn't happen?

    By didn't happen, I meant I didn't grab my gun and drive there. And for you to make the assumption that the roommate was lying is a valid assumption. But I presented the scenario as I understand it occurred/could've occurred.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    Understandable. I've book marked the link given to me by MR Redneck, and read over Sec 9.31 + Sec 9.32. After reading it I think in THIS particular situation, I wouldn't have handled the situation by carrying a weapon over to her apartment. I don't feel that the men were that aggressive enough to warrant it. I suppose had they been more aggressive(touching, not leaving when she asked them to, etc) I would follow through with what was said earlier by DrBart2 and txinvestigator.
     
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