Road rage in Houston vs. Trevon Martin

[Ray]

this morning in Houston...
I don't care what color anyone was, if a guy approaches my wife's window and starts pounding on it, my only disappointment in her will be if she didn't have to stop and reload.


Possible road rage ends in fatal shooting - Houston Chronicle




[h=1]Possible road rage ends in fatal shooting[/h][h=5]Monday, September 17, 2012 | Updated: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:30pm[/h]

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Police investigate the scene of a fatal shooting at a gas station at the intersection of Perry Road and FM 1960 Monday, Sept. 17, 2012, in Houston.




A woman on her way to work fatally shot another motorist she said attacked her after a minor collision in northwest Harris County, officials said.
Crystal Scott, 23, pulled into a Shell station on Perry near west FM 1960 about 7:20 a.m. Monday with the intention of exchanging insurance information with the other driver, officials said.
But then, the man got out of his pickup and ran toward Scott. He was yelling and hitting her car while she was still inside, she told investigators.
"He was attempting to open (Scott's) car door while striking the driver's side window," said Thomas Gilliland, a Harris County sheriff's deputy.
Scott grabbed a pistol and fired, striking the man in the chest.
He was pronounced dead at the scene. His name has not been released.
Scott's lawyer, Letitia Quinones, said her client has a license to carry a concealed weapon.
"She was afraid for her life," Quinones said. "She didn't know what this guy was going to do to her."
Scott was not injured. She was on her way to work at a Chase Bank branch when the collision happened.
Sheriff's deputies found the man in the Shell parking lot with what appeared to be two gunshot wounds to his upper chest area.
Scott called 911 before pulling into the Shell station because she was concerned about the man's actions following the collision, authorities said.
He would pull ahead of her then suddenly slam on his brakes, her lawyer said.
Sheriff's detectives questioned Scott at the scene. She was released without charges several hours later.
Her account of what happened seemed to match that of witnesses in the area, sheriff's deputies said. The case will be referred to the Harris County grand jury, authorities said.
Scott is now with her family, Quinones said.
"She's very traumatized about what has occurred," she said. "We're just letting her recover and deal with what is happening."

mike.glenn@chron.com
dale.lezon@chron.comfacebook.com/DaleLezon.com

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Supposedly he broke her window & was trying to unlock it.
Pictures I saw do not show a broken window (it was spider webbed, but whole)?
Why did she not just drive away?

 

[Ray]

No idea, she may have been able to drive off or she may have pulled over following the accepted protocol for being in a fender bender expecting to exchange insurance, but I wasn't there, all I know is that if ANY MAN approaches my wife's window aggressively, I say shoot, and keep shooting. My main issue is that the races are reversed and this is considered justified (I agree with this), but in the Trevon case, it was racially driven, it's the second guessing that put Zimmerman in jail.

 

[jamesmrj]

At first I was trying to figure the Trayvon angle in the topic title, then I read the comments.

If she drove off, couldn't she be hit with leaving the scene of an accident?

 

[JColumbus]

Damn, I feel bad for her, but this leaves me to wonder if she shot as soon as she pulled the gun out and if he was acting like a murderous animal, or an angry idiot. Some people act stupid in situations like this and usually it doesn't warrant a bullet. I guess to me, it comes down to the fact that she is a woman and if he was banging violently or more like the kind of bang people do when your body language is saying, "get the hell out now". It's hard to convey what I mean by this, but I truly believe that a man would have gotten in some serious shit if the deceased didn't have anything in his hands. It seems like the outcome was the fault of the deceased's actions, but did he deserve two bullets? Based on the report, I'd say hell no. If my wife were in that situations, I would be disappointed if she didn't give him a chance to back off after seeing the gun. If she did give him a few seconds to back off AFTER pointing the gun, then he's a dumb ass, if she pulled and shot without hesitation, then I think she deserves some sort of punishment. I believe in the stand your ground laws but its becoming to easy to just shoot someone because they've entered your personal bubble in a less than deadly way and claim you were in fear of your life. Did she shoot through a closed window? Was the door locked and he was having an impossible time getting in? Did he actually open the door or reach through the window at her? The answers to these questions would allow me to make a better decision, but based off of what is offered, looks to me like he overreacted to a car accident and she overreacted to his overreaction.

 

[JColumbus]

Supposedly he broke her window & was trying to unlock it.
Pictures I saw do not show a broken window (it was spider webbed, but whole)?
Why did she not just drive away?

Thats a good point, she could have drove off. I didn't read anything about the window being broken and I couldn't see if it was cracked. One of those things where lots of opinions could change with more info.

 

[Ray]

yes, sorry about that, should have mentioned to read the comments, and you betcha, by following the law, she was bound to stop, render assistance if necessary, exchange information and file a report with the police if fault is in question. the big picture here is that if a white (mixed white/hispanic) stands his ground in a Castle doctrine state, he can be thrown in jail for protecting his self, but if you are a black woman shooting a white mail in a Castle doctrine stae, it is justified (again, I completely agree with the castle doctrine). my issue lies in the politics of our rights.

 

[JColumbus]

yes, sorry about that, should have mentioned to read the comments, and you betcha, by following the law, she was bound to stop, render assistance if necessary, exchange information and file a report with the police if fault is in question. the big picture here is that if a white (mixed white/hispanic) stands his ground in a Castle doctrine state, he can be thrown in jail for protecting his self, but if you are a black woman shooting a white mail in a Castle doctrine stae, it is justified (again, I completely agree with the castle doctrine). my issue lies in the politics of our rights.

I've been deprived of sleep due to a migraine so perhaps this is a simple point that my exhaustion is helping me to not understand, but I think this may be more of a gender driven difference.

 

[Ray]

I've been deprived of sleep due to a migraine so perhaps this is a simple point that my exhaustion is helping me to not understand, but I think this may be more of a gender driven difference.

Maybe you're right, but I'm willing to bet that by the end of the week, this will be a racially driven discussion in the news, and I'm equally willing to bet the Trevon Martin case will be sited over and over. Stand your ground was made a politically racial issue in Florida, and it will definitely carry over to this situation.

 

[matefrio]

yes, sorry about that, should have mentioned to read the comments, and you betcha, by following the law, she was bound to stop, render assistance if necessary, exchange information and file a report with the police if fault is in question. the big picture here is that if a white (mixed white/hispanic) stands his ground in a Castle doctrine state, he can be thrown in jail for protecting his self, but if you are a black woman shooting a white mail in a Castle doctrine stae, it is justified (again, I completely agree with the castle doctrine). my issue lies in the politics of our rights.

Disparity of force/Warren doctrine/cultural predisposition.

2min into this video:

 

[JColumbus]

Maybe you're right, but I'm willing to bet that by the end of the week, this will be a racially driven discussion in the news, and I'm equally willing to bet the Trevon Martin case will be sited over and over. Stand your ground was made a politically racial issue in Florida, and it will definitely carry over to this situation.

I completely agree with that and the media will surely turn it in to that. Geeeez... Gender AND race. This shall be a heated topic for some time.

 

[Ray]

Disparity of force/Warren doctrine

I agree this SHOULD be a simple question of whether a smaller, weaker person, who happens to be in a state where she can legally carry and use a firearm was justified in shooting a larger, stronger person that was physically threatening her. The point of the post, and the purpose of the title "Road Rage in Houston vs. Trevon Martin" was to demonstrate that there is a huge double standard that will be a racially and politically driven news story.

The Trevon Martin supporters SHOULD be condemning this woman, but they won't, anymore than they should have attacked George Zimmermen. I applaud the woman protecting herself, and I do so without a care in the world what color she is. In the same way, George Zimmerman should have been left alone once the facts were out.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I think it all depends on what him "attacking" the car looked like. Was he knocking on her window because she was on the phone (w/ police) and wouldn't get out to talk to him? Or was he really trying to pull her out to harm her?

Gas station video will be telling, IMO.

Maybe she couldn't drive off after pulling into the gas station. Maybe she did warn him through the window. Maybe he was pissed because she was on her phone and wouldn't get out to exchange info - so we has banging hard on her window. Too many "maybes" too little info.

 

[Ray]

I think it all depends on what him "attacking" the car looked like. Was he knocking on her window because she was on the phone (w/ police) and wouldn't get out to talk to him? Or was he really trying to pull her out to harm her?

Gas station video will be telling, IMO.

Maybe she couldn't drive off after pulling into the gas station. Maybe she did warn him through the window. Maybe he was pissed because she was on her phone and wouldn't get out to exchange info - so we has banging hard on her window. Too many "maybes" too little info.

Completely agree that until the facts are actually out, we should reserve decision on whether or not she acted properly or improperly. I mention that I support my wife shooting someone if she feels physically threatened mostly to demonstrate that I am pro-gun, pro-Castle, and pro-CHL. BUT, the point I am making is that the press WILL make this into a "Let's re-visit Trevon Martin" and try and tell us that what happened in Florida was not OK, but this is, my argument is what's the difference? I guess the Disparity of Force argument is a valid difference, but then again, I think a woman INSIDE of a car could create a disparity of force in her favor vs. the idiot at her window, it doesn't matter to me, if she felt threatened, she should go ahead and defend herself. Ultimately, my concern lies in the way this will be spun, George = Guilty..... No, no more then she is if she were infact in danger.

On a side note, I am not intentionally being argumentative, I'm just trying to make my point clear and afraid I am not doing a good job.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

She did indeed shoot through a closed window.
If somebdy was beating on my window, the last thing I would be worried about would be leaving the scene of an accident.
Just drive off & explain what happened....
I sure hope there were witnesses!

 

[JColumbus]

On a side note, I am not intentionally being argumentative, I'm just trying to make my point clear and afraid I am not doing a good job.

Doesn't seem like that to me and I think you're doing fine. I don't agree with some of it but hey...

 

[JColumbus]

She did indeed shoot through a closed window.
If somebdy was beating on my window, the last thing I would be worried about would be leaving the scene of an accident.
Just drive off & explain what happened....
I sure hope there were witnesses!

From how I am interpreting your text, I agree and if she did shoot through a rolled up window and he didn't enter the car, I wouldn't be on her side as a jury member. We all have our anger days and some take it too far but if it looks more like she wanted to use her gun than survive. Our natural instinct of survival is to flee and she had an opportunity to do so, but chose to shoot through a barrier that separated a threat and safety. As far as I am concerned, her life was not in danger. She was probably in danger of an ass whooping IF he got in the car to her but as much of a dumb ass he was, she's gotta be just as dumb to sit in an automobile and watch him bang when its as simple as (D) or (R), depending on how she was parked.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Here is her window, the bullet hole is at the very front of the window, almost through the trim,
just over half of the way up from the bottom of the window.
Obviously, the window is intact, so he could not have been trying to reach in to unlock and/or
pull her out.

 

[alexrex20]

all I know is that if ANY MAN approaches my wife's window aggressively, I say shoot, and keep shooting.

We heard you the first time. Is that you, Mr. Horn?

All the lady had to do was drive away.

 

[matefrio]

She did indeed shoot through a closed window.
If somebdy was beating on my window, the last thing I would be worried about would be leaving the scene of an accident.
Just drive off & explain what happened....
I sure hope there were witnesses!

Did she have a duty to retreat here?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.