Reloading components in stock thread

[GasGuzzler]

That's the magic question... I haven't found one yet. From reading and looking online they are very expensive...
Not sure which one to get. I have a list

H335
AA2230
CFE223
H4198
Varget Rifle powder
Alliant AR-Comp#1

Varget is a favorite of many but it's $50 per pound and hard to come by.

H335 and CFE223 are my favorites.

FMJ means full metal jacket so that's why you pick the jacketed load data.

 

[TEXAS "All or nothing"]

Lately I've been sending new to reloading peeps some of my older manuals (free that is). Before I transfer any manuals I cross check for lack of or powders not listed in the newer. I make notes according where changes if any. I haven't truly used Lee data due to the vague bullet discription (not all that way) on plated listings. It does give a long list of powders per cartridge/bullet weight which I like and use for compatibility. Using namo group gives me a good starting point with Lapua bullets, but list only VV powder (which isn't all bad). I haven't bought any Norma powder, but do have their manual for the very few bullets I have of theirs. They list a 130gr fmj in 27cal, but not available in the US that I've found. At 1 time Precision Reloading had Rem (I believe) 115gr mc in 27cal , because of the spc round. Speer listed a tmj in the #16 of 115gr 27cal. Contacted Speer and was told no available. Seeing they listed a 75gr tmj in 22cal had me hopping. 27 and .458cal are the only 2 I don't have any tmj/fmj in, but the search continues.

 

[SQLGeek]

That's the magic question... I haven't found one yet. From reading and looking online they are very expensive...
Not sure which one to get. I have a list

H335
AA2230
CFE223
H4198
Varget Rifle powder
Alliant AR-Comp#1

In this day and age it's more about availability than getting to choose your favorite. Have a short list like those of ones you want to try and when you see some come up, snag it before it's gone. In person is better due to hazmat and shipping but again, availability is king.

 

[MrRobot]

H335 and CFE223 are both available from Powder Valley. Both $32.50/lb + shipping and Hazmat.
TAC, H335, AA2230, and CFE223 available from Midsouth. $31-$33/lb + shipping and Hazmat.

All will work for your loads, especially as you are just starting out. Pick one and carefully work up a load using reference data from a published manual (start low). Don't expect to land on the perfect powder/load right out of the gate. You will learn a LOT in the beginning. Once you are comfortable with loading bottleneck cartridges for your rifle (specifically), you can always go back to optimizing for whatever parameters you want, including comparing powders.

Good luck!

Thank you for info. I did find find CFE223 at Midsouth. I went to take a shower when I return and tried to place a order it was out of stock already.

I guess you have to quick on ordering these things. I bookmark those sites so I will continue to check.

 

[lightflyer1]

Like an airline ticket. If you see something that works for you buy it now as the price may change or be out of stock next time you check, even minutes later.

 

[MrRobot]

Well, I lesson I just learned is that Modern reloading second edition from Richard Lee I guess it's the 2019 version is so out of date.
I can't find AR-Comp powder for 223 in 55gr.

I understand why you should have more load data books. If you can't find it in one book you will find it in another book.

 

[Txmark]

Well, I lesson I just learned is that Modern reloading second edition from Richard Lee I guess it's the 2019 version is so out of date.
I can't find AR-Comp powder for 223 in 55gr.

I understand why you should have more load data books. If you can't find it in one book you will find it in another book.

Go to Alliantpowder.com and you can get load data. You can print it out for future reference. Just google ar-comp powder, then pick on 223 Remington


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MrRobot]

@Txmark, I did that earlier before posting it. What I notice from the site it's a certain bullet and primer plus case. When I was a range I would pick up my brass and everyone else or they would give me the brass. I have a mixer of 9mm to 223 and so on.

My daughter came home today and her co-worker let her borrow Lyman's 50th edition book so I could look at it. I guess it's her dad and he's out of the country.

Very nice book but when I went to the 223 section. The bullet I bought is not in there. The only bullet I see is 55 gr. Jacketed SPT.
Could it be that this book doesn't have the FMJ bullet I have?

 

[deemus]

Thank you for info. I did find find CFE223 at Midsouth. I went to take a shower when I return and tried to place a order it was out of stock already.

I guess you have to quick on ordering these things. I bookmark those sites so I will continue to check.

If you see it, you better order quick. I have lost potential orders by looking for a second item. Hit pay, and its suddenly out of stock. Jump on it as soon as you see it.

The weight of the bullet is what is important for any jacketed bullet. Generally a 55g FMJ has the same load as a 55g Jacketed soft point (JSP). A lead bullet would require using a load designated for lead bullets in the manual.

You can use those manuals for decades. THey don't change that much, though different brands of manuals may have different loads for the same bullet. Its weird like that. I use the Lee and Lyman for my first looks. If its a manufacturer that makes a manual, I may use their manual.

Your comment about older manuals not having load data for newer powders is a thing. If you have a powder you want to use you may end up having to buy a new manual, or look online for the powder manufacturer. Most have a website with load data.

FYI, Bass Pro has had powder on a regular basis. I bought CFE223 there within the last couple months.

 

[MrRobot]

I will have to take a drive to Bass Pro shop tonight. That's the thing that worries me that the Lyman 50th book does not have the bullet I bought and the Lee reloading does. Lyman is only using Hornady, Sierra... Maybe this book is not the correct one for the bullets I have. Maybe if I bought Hornady or Sierra then it would.

 

[RankAmateur]

I will have to take a drive to Bass Pro shop tonight. That's the thing that worries me that the Lyman 50th book does not have the bullet I bought and the Lee reloading does. Lyman is only using Hornady, Sierra... Maybe this book is not the correct one for the bullets I have. Maybe if I bought Hornady or Sierra then it would.

@MrRobot, I don't think there is a book that has "it all". Most reloaders I know have several reference books. You might find one that works for you IF you settled on a single bullet vendor, or a single powder manufacturer (you can do that if you want and if you can get those supplies), but you'll probably want several books so that you can find a load that will work as a starting point.

I use a lot of Sierra bullets, Bib match bullets, some Berger, some from Precision Delta, Hornady, Summit City, Berrys, etc. I use powders from Vihta Vuori, Hodgden, Winchester, Accurate, IMR, Ramshot, and Shooters World. When I can't get the "Ideal" powder, I work up a substitute load with substitute materials. I have reference books from Sierra, Berger, Lyman, and smaller load data references from Vihta Vuori, Hodgden, IMR, etc. As you get more experienced, you will probably do the same.

One thing to keep in mind is that I've never encountered a published load reference that produced EXACTLY the published velocities even when using ALL of the same components listed in the reference. Velocities, ES, SD, pressures are influenced by case volume, neck tension, COAL, CBTO, temperature, humidity, elevation, and your specific firearm (among other factors). So, the data in reference books should only serve as safe starting points. Get a few references, get the components you can, load up some rounds near the starting point in the reference (or at least 10% below maximum in the reference), and check velocities out of your firearm with a chronograph. Use those data to adjust as necessary while staying safe. Experience will come quickly.

Good luck. Enjoy the process as you learn!

 

[MrRobot]

@RankAmateur Thank you for the feedback. I thought when reloading you had to match up almost everything from all the youtubs videos I watched. I bought the bullets from Xtrembullets because they were on sale. I notice when going to bass pro shop they didn't have any Sierra or Hornady 223. Guess those are hard to find. Someone mentioned "Generally a 55g FMJ has the same load as a 55g Jacketed soft point (JSP)"

I guess they have a point since they are the same GR right?

 

[lightflyer1]

Go to your books first and see what components are called for and decide which ones are available and buy those. Works better for me as a rank beginner to be able to use what is listed rather than doing what you are doing the other way around. Much harder to buy a bunch of components and then try and determine the loading variables.

 

[benenglish]

The following is my experience and the way I work. It may not be applicable to you and I certainly won't stand by it if you blow yourself up. That's on you.

Guess those are hard to find. Someone mentioned "Generally a 55g FMJ has the same load as a 55g Jacketed soft point (JSP)"

I guess they have a point since they are the same GR right?

When a new reloader gets started, they will have questions about bullet substitutions in loads. Generally speaking, loads are interchangeable between bullets if the bullets are the same basic type and weight. Weight is obvious. Type, though, can be confusing.

Generally, the data for powder charges will be pretty close for

• cast lead bullets, with or without gas checks,
• normal (cup and lead core) jacketed bullets, and
• monolithic bullets, mostly solids but also some premium expanding bullets

but the data from each of those three groups should not be mixed. With naked lead bullets, there's leading to contend with. Monolithic solids often produce much higher pressures than normal jacketed bullets.

If you're trying to find the minimum number of manuals to cover every type of bullet you may use, I suggest:

• an old Lyman manual to cover non-jacketed lead bullets (and some powders that are less used these days),
• any good, comprehensive manual for most jacketed bullets, and
• the manual published by the actual maker of whatever monolithic bullets you wish to use.

That said, if you get to where you really love tinkering with loads, you will eventually have a library of different books and that's a good thing.

 

[RankAmateur]

@RankAmateur Thank you for the feedback. I thought when reloading you had to match up almost everything from all the youtubs videos I watched. I bought the bullets from Xtrembullets because they were on sale. I notice when going to bass pro shop they didn't have any Sierra or Hornady 223. Guess those are hard to find. Someone mentioned "Generally a 55g FMJ has the same load as a 55g Jacketed soft point (JSP)"

I guess they have a point since they are the same GR right?

OK, here comes some technical stuff Forgive me if this is pedantic, I have no wish to patronize, but perhaps some of this will be useful to understanding the "why" behind some of the advice you're receiving from members here. @benenglish is right on. You need to match both weight (grains) and composition of bullets for exchange. The diameter of the bullet will not vary much (not always true, but probably close enough for your purposes). I.E., a .223 bullet will be .223 in diameter. Because of that, a heavier .223 bullet HAS to be a LONGER .223 bullet, right? If you load to a prespecified length (OAL or CBTO), a longer bullet HAS to be set deeper into the neck than a shorter bullet. This is common for situations where you have to keep your loaded ammo short enough to fit in your magazine. That extra length of bullet that is now INSIDE the casing is reducing the available volume inside the casing for air and powder. So, if you use a charge that is safe for a short (lighter) bullet, you will produce more pressure inside the case (sometimes dangerously more pressure) when using a heavier (longer bullet).

Longer bullets also generally have longer bearing surfaces - I.E., the length of the side of the bullet that is actually in contact with the case neck and/or rifling lands. More surface area yields more friction, and can lead to higher pressures in the chamber as the bullet starts its travel down the bore.

Finally, the composition of the bullet can affect pressure. Bullets that are raw lead, have a different cooeficient of friction against the case neck and the bore lands than bullets that have lead coated with copper, or copper jacketed bullets, etc. The safe load data you would reference is developed with a specific composition of bullet, so they know the pressures produced are safe in most firearms. The take-home is that the pressure (and velocity) produced by a specific powder charge with a jacketed bullet will be different than that from the same charge with a cast lead or even copper plated bullet.

All that said, bullets of the same diameter and same grain weight and same general form have, generally, the same overall shape (close enough for argument), and so will result in similar pressures/velocities. So, a 55gr, copper-jacketed (FMJ), boat-tailed, .223 bullet from one manufacturer SHOULD be safely interchangeable with a similar bullet from a different manufacturer.

Another variable from what I recall you are using is that casings from different manufacturers (different "headstamps") have different internal volumes. Those differences may or may not be relevant, but they WILL result in different pressures inside the cartridge. If you are using mixed head stamp brass for your loads, it will be important to (as usual) work safely and start with a low charge weight. Then chronograph several of the loads to see the range of velocities produced to ensure the pressure variation is not creating an unsafe situation. These differences in case volume are why competitive shooters not only load only ONE brand of brass, they will also only load from one LOT of that one brand. They will even go so far as to weigh every case they intend to load from that lot and only load cases that are within 0.5 grains of each other! That assures that the internal volumes of the cases are a similar as practical. For most purposes, this is WAY overkill, but it does illustrate that such variables DO affect pressure and velocity. If you REALLY want crazy, some will even match the brass they use by measuring the water weight volume of each case before selecting it for loading!!

Hope some of this is helpful to understanding? For your purposes of general use, AR rifle loads with 55 gr FMJs, as long as you use essentially any 55 gr, FMJ, boat tail bullet, you should be good to go.

Another recommendation is to find a reloading mentor. Are you a member of a club/range? Often, you can find other members who reload, and often those folks are happy to coach. No substitute for hands on experience with someone looking over your shoulder.

Sorry for the length of the preceding book chapter (grin).

 

[SQLGeek]

@Txmark, I did that earlier before posting it. What I notice from the site it's a certain bullet and primer plus case. When I was a range I would pick up my brass and everyone else or they would give me the brass. I have a mixer of 9mm to 223 and so on.

I wouldn't worry about specific case and primer brands for 5.56/.223. Start at the recommended minimum powder for your chosen recipe and work up. If I remember, correctly, Alliant gives one powder weight and recommends starting at -10% of that.

 

[SQLGeek]

If you see it, you better order quick. I have lost potential orders by looking for a second item. Hit pay, and its suddenly out of stock. Jump on it as soon as you see it.

Very much this. If there are other things you think you want that usually stay in stock, keep them in the cart so that when you add the powder you want, you get everything.

 

[SQLGeek]

@MrRobot I understand wanting to do things by the book and to the T. I am much the same way. I think there are about 5 of us now that have told you that it is OK to use recipes for different bullet and component manufacturers as long as the material weight of the bullet is the same.

This is a common question for new reloaders and one I researched extensively myself when I was getting started.

 

[MrRobot]

thank you guys for re-inforcing and answering my questions. Someone mentioned "boat tail bullet" so I had to look that up. Pretty interesting how just a simple thing like that will change the speed of a bullet.

I was thinking of putting a simple post on the steps I'm doing. That way if I"m doing something wrong someone could point them out to me.

last night was the first time I used my wet tumbler. I did about 100 223 and they came out nice and clean. I will really watch on the bullet I buy and make sure I stick to data load. I know 80% of my used brass is a mixture of different companies. That's one thing I have to watch and pay attention to brass that is wearing out or damaged.

 

[SQLGeek]

You will develop an inspection routine for your brass as you work through the steps. Inspecting after tumbling can help reveal flaws otherwise hidden by grime.

Feel free to create a new thread to ask about your steps.