Price "Gouging" Rant

[Darkpriest667]

Question:

Pretty much everyone here says they are for capitalism. Capitalism involves selling for profit.

Exactly what profit margin is acceptable, then? Some obviously feel there is a limit, so what percent is that limit?

And for those that feel there is a limit, should that not be codified in the Constitution?

I knew someone was going to say something without merit.

Capitalism is NOT just selling for profit, it's much more private ownership of the means of production.

The reason that I gave the socialist example in another thread is that when the PUBLIC buys all of the production and resells it it is public ownership of the means of production. Go look up what that means. I'll save you the time, it's communism. It's exactly what the left wants. Empty shelves and when there is anything bought on a shelf it is by someone who is NOT a producer that then goes and resells it. You could read some examples of this in the USSR with FOOD (or Venezuela.) Right now that is happening with ammunition and to a lesser extent firearms.

Also free-market capitalism exists without government interference, because of high regulations in the ammunition and gun industries free market capitalism CANNOT exist in those industries, creating much higher barriers to entry. Artificial scarcity essentially describes situations where the producers or owners (scalpers) of a good restrict its availability to others beyond what is strictly necessary. Scalpers and gougers do that on purpose to create a profit motive in a restricted market.

So if you really believed in a free market you'd:

1) publicly shame scalpers

2) believe in deregulation of all industries

Everyone believes in the second, but half of this board doesn't believe in the first.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Big talk on the internet kiddo. You must really suck at understanding markets.


Look, people are sitting in line buying up all of the natural supply of a good and then RESELLING it at a higher price. They're creating false scarcity. I know its really hard for your tiny brain to understand that.

I don't buy or sell right now myself. I am sitting on more ammunition than most, less than the regulars on this site, but more than the general gun owners. It's not a complaint about prices. I am perfectly ok with natural rise in prices based on supply and demand. I'll add you to the spreadsheet of people with room temperature IQ. Thanks for playing.

My ammo costs have not increased because as a buyer I am not buying right now.

If Academy would increase their prices, it would make they resellers margin too thin, and you could lower the risk of leaving empty-handed, but yall would just complain Academy or Cabelas was scalping.

High demand + limited/lagging supply = high prices if you want to go home with it.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[TxStetson]

I also boycott those dealers that jacked up their prices during the last shortage and have not shopped with them since.

I have not even opened a CTD web page since the week after Sandy Hook. I can understand raising prices to market value, but cancelling orders and then relisting those items at a higher price will never be forgiven. The owners of CTD can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Big talk on the internet kiddo. You must really suck at understanding markets.


Look, people are sitting in line buying up all of the natural supply of a good and then RESELLING it at a higher price. They're creating false scarcity. I know its really hard for your tiny brain to understand that.

I don't buy or sell right now myself. I am sitting on more ammunition than most, less than the regulars on this site, but more than the general gun owners. It's not a complaint about prices. I am perfectly ok with natural rise in prices based on supply and demand. I'll add you to the spreadsheet of people with room temperature IQ. Thanks for playing.

My ammo costs have not increased because as a buyer I am not buying right now.

If Academy would increase their prices, it would make they resellers margin too thin, and you could lower the risk of leaving empty-handed, but yall would just complain Academy or Cabelas was scalping.

High demand + limited/lagging supply = high prices if you want to go home with it.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[oldag]

I knew someone was going to say something without merit.

Capitalism is NOT just selling for profit, it's much more private ownership of the means of production.

The reason that I gave the socialist example in another thread is that when the PUBLIC buys all of the production and resells it it is public ownership of the means of production. Go look up what that means. I'll save you the time, it's communism. It's exactly what the left wants. Empty shelves and when there is anything bought on a shelf it is by someone who is NOT a producer that then goes and resells it. You could read some examples of this in the USSR with FOOD (or Venezuela.) Right now that is happening with ammunition and to a lesser extent firearms.

Also free-market capitalism exists without government interference, because of high regulations in the ammunition and gun industries free market capitalism CANNOT exist in those industries, creating much higher barriers to entry. Artificial scarcity essentially describes situations where the producers or owners (scalpers) of a good restrict its availability to others beyond what is strictly necessary. Scalpers and gougers do that on purpose to create a profit motive in a restricted market.

So if you really believed in a free market you'd:

1) publicly shame scalpers

2) believe in deregulation of all industries

Everyone believes in the second, but half of this board doesn't believe in the first.

You have go to be kidding. Capitalism will NOT EXIST without profit. Thought everyone would understand something that simple.

Private ownership will go out of business with no profit. {Unless you are one of those who thinks taxpayers should bail out every business.}

Capitalism and profit go hand in hand and that should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

You gripe about not buying from a producer (e.g., someone is not a producer and they resell). Do you have any idea what percent of the goods you buy are sold by someone who is NOT a producer? Probably 99% for most folks. Precious few manufacturers sell direct to the public. Try buying TP from P&G as an individual. Or wipes direct for Clorox. Etc., etc., etc.

And you are confusing "public" with "government".

Think a little deeper.

Again, the cure for scalpers? Don't buy from them.

 

[Fishkiller]

My ammo costs have not increased because as a buyer I am not buying right now.

If Academy would increase their prices, it would make they resellers margin too thin, and you could lower the risk of leaving empty-handed, but yall would just complain Academy or Cabelas was scalping.

High demand + limited/lagging supply = high prices if you want to go home with it.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

If you think the price is too high, do not buy. This is a simple philosophy, at least for me. As to scalpers, well that is getting into philosophical type discussions. If I make my living by buying a product and reselling for a profit am I a bad person? If on the other hand I see that I have a product on hand, that I bought with no intention of selling. And then prices go sky high for said product so I decide to sell some of my hoard. Well then I see that as a problem.

 

[oldag]

I have not even opened a CTD web page since the week after Sandy Hook. I can understand raising prices to market value, but cancelling orders and then relisting those items at a higher price will never be forgiven. The owners of CTD can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

Hope we all agree that practice was unethical. Basically breaking a sales contract.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I have not even opened a CTD web page since the week after Sandy Hook. I can understand raising prices to market value, but cancelling orders and then relisting those items at a higher price will never be forgiven. The owners of CTD can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

Market value is what someone will pay.

My issue with CTD is the cancelation of paid orders to sell that product at a higher price. It was sold and was the buyers property at the time of sell.

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[HCS]

Question:

Pretty much everyone here says they are for capitalism. Capitalism involves selling for profit.

Exactly what profit margin is acceptable, then? Some obviously feel there is a limit, so what percent is that limit?

And for those that feel there is a limit, should that not be codified in the Constitution?

there is an old saying in business when it comes to pricing

"pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered"

yes the market drives the price, everything is priced at what the market is willing to pay.

full manufacture retail pricing allows for the retailer to make an average of 40% to cover overhead & profit

current full retail on primers is $40.00-$50.00 per thousand and very few retailers actually sell at full MSRP

so we as consumers (at least those willing to do so)are driving the price up by willing to pay $200.00 plus per thousand as seen on

gunbroker and other auction sites these days, if the market will bear it, then sellers will capitalize on it as long as we are willing

to bear it and due to the shortage which has been created by multiple contributing factors:

the covid 19 virus has hindered production of product, including the raw materials production, employees having to social distance on production floors, etc.., employee's or family members that are sick and need care

extremely high demand well beyond normal production capabilities

panic and fear of shortages driven by civil unrest, economic shutdowns and political climate change upcoming

there will be a time when things return to a new normal and who knows what that will be, but if people would quit bidding $200 for a thousand primers, then slowly those people hoarding them and trying to price gouge would soon need to regain their capital and not only quit trying sell them at hawg prices, they would also stop buying all of the supply and depleting it from normal stock
for the rest of the market to be able to freely purchase at both fair & reasonable prices.

but for now, if they can keep the supply scarce from normal retail, the fear high, they will continue to charge as much as the market will bear.

I know of one business man that saw a shortage of .22 LR coming a few years ago and bought numerous pallet loads of .22 at normal wholesale pricing and warehoused it for about 6 months, as the shortage grew, he was charging $10-12 a box and sold thousands at that price as the demand grew,
however the shortage eventually went away and he still had some that ammo in his warehouse last year but I am sure he has finally sold it all with this latest shortage

 

[benenglish]

Bought ... for less than face value (and a tenth of what they were selling for earlier) by waiting.

The last time I went to the Olympics, I did the same. Not with tickets (that doesn't work) but with housing. If you try to book housing during an Olympics more than 6 months prior to the event, the prices will be at least double and often ten times normal. If you wait until 10 days before the opening, the housing scalpers will be in full panic mode and dumping everything they've got for whatever price they can get. I wound up with a passable hotel room at about half normal rates simply because 99.9% of the people who needed housing had arranged it a year prior so the hotel had to either cut rates to the bone or let rooms sit empty.

I've only been to a few Olympic events but I've been assured by people that go to all of them that this principle works nearly every time.

The only thing that distorts this principle is the same thing that distorts all markets: government intervention. Assuming no change in the laws (not a good assumption right now), ammo prices will come back down eventually. If the Rs can hold the line in the Senate and gain ground at the next mid-terms, I can envision a scenario where prices pretty much crash in 2 to 3 years. If the Ds take Georgia and move aggressively against the 2A, the current market distortion could easily become permanent.

I have no idea what will finally happen. For now, I'm just glad that I have enough to shoot for a while and I can make more.

 

[HCS]

FYI to all post concerning CTD,

I have always thought their pricing was very high and never bought anything from them

 

[flgfish]

I'd prefer to be able to buy ammo at higher prices, than to have it all unavailable. Just my 2c.

 

[wbblazer90]

Market value is what someone will pay.

My issue with CTD is the cancelation of paid orders to sell that product at a higher price. It was sold and was the buyers property at the time of sell.

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This

 

[CPTKILLER]

Ammo price gouging is the norm now especially with pistol ammunition.

 

[Brojon]

Flip side of the coin is the habitual lowballer and people unwilling to pay a fair price. Real time wasters.
That's why the OP has taken a beating in the past.
I won't sell a gun for less than I feel its worth but I will try to make a few bucks if I can to fuel the next acquisition. Just because I got a good price doesn't obligate me to pass that along.

 

[Bozz10mm]

I also boycott those dealers that jacked up their prices during the last shortage and have not shopped with them since.

You aren't going to have many choices to buy from after this shortage. 90% of them are doing it.

 

[69ChevelleLSX]

You going to be at any gun shows? I’ll buy your ammo your giving away at 2018 prices.
I have all the ammo I need but I’ll purchase any at good price.

 

[Kosh75287]

Gouging's just wrong.
Price increases along the lines of demand/supply curves, I can understand. They're something of an inevitability.
I can see both sides of the OP's original argument, and I take no position. I just despise the things that're happening and the reasons for them, when they were SO PREVENTABLE.

 

[Kosh75287]

You going to be at any gun shows? I’ll buy your ammo your giving away at 2018 prices.
I have all the ammo I need but I’ll purchase any at good price.

This makes you part of the problem.

 

[samr46]

Could not agree more. Just sold brand new Ruger 9MM rifle and Sig pistol like new for less than I paid. Didn’t care about squeezing a dollar and wanted quick sale. Makes buyer happy too.