Per TX and SA Law, the optimal way to deal with door to door solicitors?

[DaBull]

Is your name on the deed or the lease? If yes, you have apparent authority. Since your name isn’t on the HOA baord (they own the common areas), you don’t have actual or apparent authority beyond your property lines.

But isn't the board just the elected decision making body? It also has a permanent staff that I pay to act on my behalf to do things like hire landscapers, fix the gate and fence, clean the pool, and (according to the sign at our gate) prosecute trespassers.

By my question, I meant, doesn't my HOA have apparent authority over the area within the fence, to include my house...and therefore the ability to be the complainent without a POA for home trespass from me? They absolutely control (via gate code access) who can enter the neighborhood...I would think that is enough to indicate apparent authority.

 

[toddnjoyce]

But isn't the board just the elected decision making body? It also has a permanent staff that I pay to act on my behalf to do things like hire landscapers, fix the gate and fence, clean the pool, and (according to the sign at our gate) prosecute trespassers.

By my question, I meant, doesn't my HOA have apparent authority over the area within the fence, to include my house...and therefore the ability to be the complainent without a POA for home trespass from me? They absolutely control (via gate code access) who can enter the neighborhood...I would think that is enough to indicate apparent authority.

The HOA has no apparent authority re: your private property under 30.05 unless it’s specifically stated in the CCRs or bylaws.

 

[TJjerry]

I live in a POA, we property owners also own the common areas and the appointed Board members are our care takers of such. We contact the local authority and let them know how unhappy we are that they have decided to not process trespassing and will remember such come election day. We point out that they actively tresspass people from Walmart and such. That is ONE.

Our gates clearly point out no solicitation or trespassing. When a salesman shows up at my door, My pistol is visible in my belt and I inform him that he is trespass. I further tell him that I am required now to call the county law and report him, if I don't I could get sued. And furthermore that if anyone buys his product a group of us will sue that neighbor as they know better. I usually see them leave.
That keeps it down, but does not stop it totally, not any repeaters that I know of though.

 

[Axxe55]

Excellent stuff. I do not intend to hold someone at gunpoint, but I do want an ironclad legal argument to shut down a solicitor's BS legal talk. I edited a cut and paste of the code to contextualize and focus on the red text below, before I ask another question:

Penal Code Section 30.05​

Criminal Trespass​

(a)​

A person commits an offense if the person enters ... property of another, including residential land,...without effective consent and the person:

(1)​

had notice that the entry was forbidden; so.

(b)​

For purposes of this section:

(1)​

“Entry” means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2)​

“Notice” means:

(A)​

oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(B)​

fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders...;

(C)​

a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

So, a solicitor has told me that a sign placed at the gate of a residential community, controlled by an HOA, does NOT meet the definition of an apparent authority to act, UNLESS the HOA has granted a Power of Attorney to act on issues of trespassing on behalf of the specific homeowner who is a victim of the unwanted solicitation. Furthermore, in such cases, only the HOA can be the complainant, not the homeowner.

Is this just some BS that solicitors tell each other to give them the hubris to enter gated communities without fear? It seems to me, the HOA is comprised of all homeowners, so they are one and the same. No POA would be needed and either the homeowner or HOA could be the complainant. This one is more legal, but hoping someone can still shed "legal" light on this.

NO TRESSPASSING CANBE ISSUED INSIGHNAGE OR VERBALLY

 

[DaBull]

The HOA has no apparent authority re: your private property under 30.05 unless it’s specifically stated in the CCRs or bylaws.

I'll have to check, but I suspect that it does since they ask us to call them to report solicitors in the neighborhood.

I was trying to refute the solicitor who said a POA was required for the HOA to act on my behalf.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I'll have to check, but I suspect that it does since they ask us to call them to report solicitors in the neighborhood.

I was trying to refute the solicitor who said a POA was required for the HOA to act on my behalf.

He’s likely not incorrect. It would be highly unusual for a HOA to he acting on your behalf on your private property. They usually limit their authority to common areas (streets community parking lots, community areas and other real assets owned by the HOA).

For instance, how would the HOA or it’s agent, the property management co, know who, specifically should be allowed on your property or not. Imagine them trespassing your Pastor who’s coming over for Sunday dinner? They have no idea if he’s invited or not…too much liability for them to take on, because if they do it for you, they have to so it for everyone.

 

[DaBull]

He’s likely not incorrect. It would be highly unusual for a HOA to he acting on your behalf on your private property. They usually limit their authority to common areas (streets community parking lots, community areas and other real assets owned by the HOA).

For instance, how would the HOA or it’s agent, the property management co, know who, specifically should be allowed on your property or not. Imagine them trespassing your Pastor who’s coming over for Sunday dinner? They have no idea if he’s invited or not…too much liability for them to take on, because if they do it for you, they have to so it for everyone.

The HOA WANTS to act on our behalf. They are the ones who put up the "No Soliciting/No Trespassing/Violators Will Be Prosecuted" sign at our gated entry. They WILL act if they see a door-to-door solicitor, but in practice, they are too small a staff in a big neighborhood to have the opportunity to observe this except by accident. They depend on residents to report solictors to them for action.

The system above does not prevent residents with existing business contracts from allowing contractors in to provide their products of services, so long as those contractors do not abuse their relationship and start going door-to-door (as some have).

The system is failing because solicitors are ignoring the sign at entry either because they believe it has no basis in law or it is not being enforced; and residents are allowing solicitors to tailgate them through the gate, and they are not answering the door or politely declining offers rather than pointing to the sign at the gate and calling the HOA. Meanwhile they are complaining amongst themselves about all the solictors in a gated community.

Residents need to be educated on a legally defensible way to work with the HOA to use the existing laws and code enforcement processes to push solicitors out of our neighborhood and into others that are easier pickings.

 

[toddnjoyce]

The HOA WANTS to act on our behalf. ….

No, they don’t. The sign at the gate is a feel good sign.

 

[BBL]

Please review the applicable Texas Code of Criminal Procedure statue (CCP 14.01) which governs who may make arrests and under what circumstances, otherwise you may find yourself unpleasantly familiar with PC 20.02

CCP only allows "any other person" to arrest for felonies and offences of the public peace (generally interpreted as disorderly conduct offences PC 42.01).

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Oh yeah, criminal trespass is only a misdemeanor and civilians are not allowed to perform such arrest. D'oh!
Thanks for the reminder.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Oh yeah, criminal trespass is only a misdemeanor and civilians are not allowed to perform such arrest. D'oh!
Thanks for the reminder.

You CAN use force to cause the person to leave so long as it is used reasonably...

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[General Zod]

You CAN use force to cause the person to leave so long as it is used reasonably...

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Any reasonable person would leave if they were shot at, right?

 

[DaBull]

No, they don’t. The sign at the gate is a feel good sign.

My HOA might be different. For example, there is no parking on the street after sundown, unless you have a guest and request an overnight in advance one night at a time. There are no sidewalks, there are only walking paths between the backs of houses. So quiet and peaceful. Except for the occasional solicitor.

 

[toddnjoyce]

My HOA might be different...

It ain’t.

 

[benenglish]

residents are allowing solicitors to tailgate them through the gate

Back when I worked a job that required me to get into gated communities without anyone's permission (most of the time, apartment complexes) I kept a chain in a burlap sack in my trunk. There was a rope that tied the bag closed. I'd throw it over the exit gate, drag the chain over the induction loop that opens the gate for exiting cars, and as soon as the gate started to move, I'd throw the rope over the gate, jump in my car, and drive in through the exit gate. It didn't always work but it usually did.

tl:dr - Tailgating residents isn't the only way for a non-resident to enter your community.

 

[Darkpriest667]

Just curious, why are you so allergic to it?

What's your address? I'll make sure to sign you up. You'll get real quick why we get sick of it. I answer the door with a pistol in my hand and they almost always leave immediately. I'm over it.

EDIT -- I have a sign that says no soliciting

 

[Rhino]

What's your address? I'll make sure to sign you up. You'll get real quick why we get sick of it. I answer the door with a pistol in my hand and they almost always leave immediately. I'm over it.

I think you'd be shocked. I don't mind people coming to my door as I'm not that anti-social. I'd trade that for all the online ads in a heartbeat.

 

[Johnny Diamond]

I find that at this point in my life it's usually always "WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DO YOU WANT " ?

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[General Zod]

I think you'd be shocked. I don't mind people coming to my door as I'm not that anti-social. I'd trade that for all the online ads in a heartbeat.

Considering that two of my high school friends were raped by a door to door salesman, I tend to view them with suspicion and would rather they did not potentially knock when I'm not the one who's home to deal with them.

 

[Steve In Texas]

Door to door solicitors are the second lowest form of life in the working world. I need nothing sold that way--ever.

 

[Army 1911]

Tell them you need their credit card because as a psychologist I get paid $100 an hour to listen to people.