OWB Holster - Which style is best for concealment?

[GoPappy]

And let me beat Moonpie to the punch. What round for serial holster thiefs?

 

[Glenn B]

Glenn, while a snap holster would be easier for a bad guy to remove than a slotted holster, I would think the bad guy would just remove the gun from the holster LONG before he would remove the holster itself.

So, unless I run into a serial holster thief, this seems like a theoretical problem more than a practical one.

You would be wrong in many cases. When a bad guy is struggling with you and you with him as he is trying to get your pistol, if he gets his hand(s) on the holster holding the pistol - guess what! As you struggle, what are you holding onto - likely somehow you are covering the pistol grip from above with hand or forearm or elbow trying to retain it. Bad guy grabs holster and twists/yanks/pulls/whatever and the next thing you know he has the whole kit and caboodle if easy to strip away and because you expected him to pull it up and out and were protecting against that and not for him to rip the whole holster/gun combo from your side.

This is stuff I repeatedly trained for and in which I trained others over the course of 16 years of collateral duties as a firearms instructor with the now defunct U.S. Customs Service Office of Investigations. We watched training films on the subject, trained hands on, and were schooled about actual incidents where the guns still inside the holster were snatched. In fact, at the time, there was one very popular brand of tacticool holster (that will remain nameless because I cannot recall which it was for sure) that was readily torn away from the belt to which it was secured because of piss poor construction.

You can go on thinking a bad guy will just do this or that when in fact what happens in such a struggle is predictable, to any degree at all, only in as much as you have prepared for it or are unprepared for it. Even then, you cannot be certain of the outcome, all you can do is slant it to your favor by preparedness.

 

[smittyb]

That’s why I only carry in level 26 retention holsters with the gun unloaded.
Because you can never be too prepared.

 

[Glenn B]

Glenn, while a snap holster would be easier for a bad guy to remove than a slotted holster, I would think the bad guy would just remove the gun from the holster LONG before he would remove the holster itself.

So, unless I run into a serial holster thief, this seems like a theoretical problem more than a practical one.

One other thing, did you watch the video I embedded above about the assassination attempt on President Park of S. Korea? I would bet that you and most others would have thought that when his security guard drew his pistol - he would have drawn just the pistol - it is the logical thing to think. Not what happened though, at least as per the training we got from the Secret Service when they used that as a training video. The holster came with the gun and he was trying to draw it and that supposedly was the black thing skittering across the stage after he drew.

Just think of someone trying to get your gun who in the struggle grabs the holster maybe because you moved or you deflcted his hand a bit or because he was smart and knew a way to get it of which you had not thought. Whyever he grabs the holster, do you think he is going to let it go and then try to grab the pistol or will he try to yank it away in the holster? All I am saying is I strongly recommend against snap-on/paddle/clip-on holsters based upon my training which included examples of Murphy taking charge.

 

[Glenn B]

That’s why I only carry in level 26 retention holsters with the gun unloaded.
Because you can never be too prepared.

Yes you are the best - your reply makes that obvious.

I always wonder, why someone like you gives an arrogant sarcastic type of reply as you just did to a topic of serious discussion between folks having that discussion in a respectful manner. All I can think of as the answer to my own wonderment is not repeatable here without them banning me.

 

[smittyb]

Yes you are the best - your reply makes that obvious.

I always wonder, why someone like you gives an arrogant sarcastic type of reply as you just did to a topic of serious discussion between folks having that discussion in a respectful manner. All I can think of as the answer to my own wonderment is not repeatable here without them banning me.

Why, thank you.
Also, thanks for the self restraint, we sure would hate to loose you.

 

[Renegade]

You would be wrong in many cases. When a bad guy is struggling with you and you with him as he is trying to get your pistol, if he gets his hand(s) on the holster holding the pistol - guess what! As you struggle, what are you holding onto - likely somehow you are covering the pistol grip from above with hand or forearm or elbow trying to retain it. Bad guy grabs holster and twists/yanks/pulls/whatever and the next thing you know he has the whole kit and caboodle if easy to strip away and because you expected him to pull it up and out and were protecting against that and not for him to rip the whole holster/gun combo from your side.

I think you would hard pressed to document cases where a concealed carrier got into a struggle for his gun/holster. Not saying it has no happened, but it is as rare as the criminal robber who shoots open carrier as soon as he sees them.

 

[candcallen]

You would be wrong in many cases. When a bad guy is struggling with you and you with him as he is trying to get your pistol, if he gets his hand(s) on the holster holding the pistol - guess what! As you struggle, what are you holding onto - likely somehow you are covering the pistol grip from above with hand or forearm or elbow trying to retain it. Bad guy grabs holster and twists/yanks/pulls/whatever and the next thing you know he has the whole kit and caboodle if easy to strip away and because you expected him to pull it up and out and were protecting against that and not for him to rip the whole holster/gun combo from your side.

This is stuff I repeatedly trained for and in which I trained others over the course of 16 years of collateral duties as a firearms instructor with the now defunct U.S. Customs Service Office of Investigations. We watched training films on the subject, trained hands on, and were schooled about actual incidents where the guns still inside the holster were snatched. In fact, at the time, there was one very popular brand of tacticool holster (that will remain nameless because I cannot recall which it was for sure) that was readily torn away from the belt to which it was secured because of piss poor construction.

You can go on thinking a bad guy will just do this or that when in fact what happens in such a struggle is predictable, to any degree at all, only in as much as you have prepared for it or are unprepared for it. Even then, you cannot be certain of the outcome, all you can do is slant it to your favor by preparedness.

FOBUS. FOBUS is the POS you're thinking of. But I'm not sure if the issues were addressed nor of its continued popularity with all the other newer options as they were one of the first of the type.

The lesson of construction as it relates to security is a sound one to pay attention to. Some paddle holsters are easily ripped apart with minimal torque.

It doesnt mean dont use them, it means be aware and mitigate weaknesses. It's your life.

Treating people like they are less than human cause they make different choices than super spec OP exec protect gods is a little cliche'. I dont think he intended it to come across like it sounded.

I could be wrong, it's been known to happen on leap day of leap years.

 

[candcallen]

I think you would hard pressed to document cases where a concealed carrier got into a struggle for his gun/holster. Not saying it has no happened, but it is as rare as the criminal robber who shoots open carrier as soon as he sees them.

Concealed is concealed. Printing is not.

So a properly concealed weapon is pretty safe from a snatch attempt. If you have a snatch attempt you probably phucked something up.

I use comptac IWB holsters. Yes they have hooks that clip on the belt but it's an informed choice. I take concealment seriously and am aware of the possibility and had a snatch attempt on duty once so im ok with the compromise.

I actually train on drawing if the gun holster isnt retained on the belt properly. Infact it's so second nature it's part of my natural draw stroke to use my trigger finger to push the holster off as I draw regardless of it hooked in place or not.

Mitigating the effects of compromise is part of carrying concealed.

 

[oldag]

I think you would hard pressed to document cases where a concealed carrier got into a struggle for his gun/holster. Not saying it has no happened, but it is as rare as the criminal robber who shoots open carrier as soon as he sees them.

At some point, each person must look at the probabilities and weigh them against the risk.

As R points out, if one is carrying concealed the first time the assailant knows you are armed is when you have drawn and the pistol is in your hand. Retention is not an issue at that point.

 

[oldag]

Concealed is concealed. Printing is not.

So a properly concealed weapon is pretty safe from a snatch attempt. If you have a snatch attempt you probably phucked something up.

I use comptac IWB holsters. Yes they have hooks that clip on the belt but it's an informed choice. I take concealment seriously and am aware of the possibility and had a snatch attempt on duty once so im ok with the compromise.

I actually train on drawing if the gun holster isnt retained on the belt properly. Infact it's so second nature it's part of my natural draw stroke to use my trigger finger to push the holster off as I draw regardless of it hooked in place or not.

Mitigating the effects of compromise is part of carrying concealed.

Printing is overhyped. No one notices.

 

[oldag]

And you did not read any words I wrote saying they inadvertently snap off although I do not discount the possibility of sch. I said they are easy off. They are easier for someone to take away from the wearer than a conventional belt holster with closed slots. If you have ever had someone really try hard to take away your holstered handgun, I would think you would realize that you want a holster that is not going to come away easily, like possibly a snap-on holster or paddle or clip-on holster, and that also retains the weapon better than just a friction retention type. You also want a strong enough belt not be be torn off if some grabs your holstered pistol.

All that said - my guess would be - if you wear a snap-on holster in a vehicle long enough and squirm around enough in your seat - the snap could be undone by the seat belt buckle or something else in the vehicle pressing from underneath or somehow against the edge of the snap but that is just a guess. Thumb snaps come undone inadvertently, mag pouch snaps come undone likewise, even pants snaps sometimes pop open when unexpected. I see no reason for it to to be impossible with a snap on a snap-on holster should the circumstances be right. Then when you draw...

Someone would have to undo both snaps and also undo them in the proper direction (re: pull the dot snaps). Impossible? No. But two factors. First, carrying concealed no one will know I am armed until I draw. Second, I must weight the probability of your scenario vs. the risk. The second factor is different for LEO than for civilian carrying concealed.

I do wear snap on OWB holsters while driving. The seat belt buckle does not interfere with the snaps and there is nothing else to snag them.

 

[GoPappy]

For me, the actual risk of someone removing a snap holster (versus a slotted holster) is outweighed by the convenience of the snaps. There might be other factors that would cause me to choose a slotted holster (e.g., if it conformed better to the body and was more comfortable).

My truck would be more secure if it had bulletproof glass, Kevlar lining in the doors, and metal plate in the floor. But the cost and mpg penalty outweigh the risk.

 

[GoPappy]

By the way, I appreciate everyone’s input on this. All comments and suggestions are welcome. I’d love to see holster pics also if anyone has some.

 

[oldag]

By the way, I appreciate everyone’s input on this. All comments and suggestions are welcome. I’d love to see holster pics also if anyone has some.

Warbird.

 

[Byrd666]

By the way, I appreciate everyone’s input on this. All comments and suggestions are welcome. I’d love to see holster pics also if anyone has some.

I messed up somewhere and can't post pic correctly.

BTP3

• Byrd666
• Jan 15, 2020

Maybe I got it??

 

[GoPappy]

Byrd, is that the Jeffrey Leather QuickSnap QS-BTP you mentioned earlier in this thread as your favorite holster? Looks really good, and seems like it would be really easy to put on and take off.

 

[Byrd666]

Byrd, is that the Jeffrey Leather QuickSnap QS-BTP you mentioned earlier in this thread as your favorite holster? Looks really good, and seems like it would be really easy to put on and take off.

It is the same as mentioned. The simple on/off was one of the reasons I chose this holster, simple and secure. I've tried multiple times to get it to actually come loose and interfere with my draw, and have yet to do so. I've done a few draws with the snap loosened, with my belt at wearing tight and I could feel it shift a bit, but, the draw stroke went without incident.

 

[candcallen]

Printing is overhyped. No one notices.

For purposes of this discussion, as I said concealed is concealed and the snatch issue doesnt come to the forefront till it's not concealed.

So when someone notices then its important.

I notice all the time. Anyone with any level of awareness in the subject of defense and keeping your head out of your ars will notice people printing. Their hands, their dress, their actions, body language, seem out of place etc.

So ya people do notice, and exactly the people you might not want to notice. Those who can and will act. Good and bad.

 

[TheDan]

My favorite holster below.
http://www.jeffreycustomleather.com/ConcealedCarryHolsterQSBTP.html
... between the pant and belt wear.

I like the simplicity of that, but if you draw does the opening collapse? Is your belt then loose? A loose belt would suck as it's not wise to enter a gunfight with your pants around your knees