My TSA experience traveling with an EBR this past weekend

[Kyreb]

My son is USCG stationed in Clearwater. The year (2004) he joined up I gave him a Bushmaster 20" HBAR AR15 I had assembled from parts. He has had a great career so far. He just qualified as a Flight Mechanic on his helicopter and does search and rescue work. For those unfamiliar with this, he preps the bird for flight, monitors the various systems while in flight and works the hoist for the swimmer/basket on rescues.
So based on this accomplishment, I decided to upgrade him to a more modern, M4 type carbine with Eotech sight and other assorted toys. I took this rifle over to him last week and planned to bring his old HBAR back to Houston for some upgrades.
For the flight over, I took a sturdy, hard plastic rifle case I use for 3 gun. I took a plastic coated cable, ran it through the action and around the middle hinge on the case. I topped this off with a good heavy duty master lock and closed the case. No way this rifle was going to be separated from the case without a pair of bolt cutters. Next I closed the case and topped it off with the required TSA lock. (These are little "toy" locks that could easily be defeated with a pair of small diagonal cutting pliers.)
Flew over and back on Southwest. At the counters, the Southwest people were great. At both Hobby and Tampa they could not have been more gracious and did not bat an eyeball over the EBR. At Hobby, the SW folks took the guncase with my other luggage and away we went. No problem. In Tampa however, they advised I had to accompany a SW baggage guy over to TSA to check the rifle in with them.
Those TSA folks had a real attitude. They refused to take the gun case because it was "not secured properly". They told me I had to have TSA locks at every point in the case where a lock could be placed. (Three total on this case, one at the handle and on each end.) I politely advised the agent of my interior cable and lock set up and asked the agent to open the case and see for himself. He refused. I asked to talk to his supervisor and was told the same thing. She also refused to open the case to even look at my security set up. They finally advised they were more afraid someone could slip something "inside" the case with my rifle than they were my rifle would be stolen.

This was a real WTH moment for me.

At this point I was pretty PO'ed but knew they were probably ready to slap the cuffs on this "Texas cracker with a gun" if I gave them the slightest reason. I kept quiet.

Fortunately, I was able to leave the gun there with TSA and wife overseeing, while I ran upstairs and found a shop selling the TSA approved toy locks. $25 and two more toy locks later, they accepted the case for the flight. We made our flight, but my rifle did not. It floated around as a "lost luggage" claim for an additional 24 hours. I had given up on ever seeing it again when it was finally delivered to my home in Houston yesterday.

Lessons learned.....(1) TSA interprets their regs differently at different airports. (2) Next time I travel with a gun I will drive.

 

[KAK]

They should either clarify the damn rules or let us carry them on.

 

[Dawico]

So the TSA is worried about other TSA/ airport employees slipping something in your case? I am going to assume they would be the only ones with access to it once you checked it in. That makes very little sense, but few things to do with government security do.

 

[Angered_Kabar]

I worked in the luggage area at Orlando. When things like long gun cases, golf clubs, surfboards, etc. were handled, they would go down their special oversized luggage chute and then taken to the airline's luggage carousel where they were then put on the luggage carts with the other luggage for that flight. My job never gave me clearance to go on the ramp so I don't know exactly what happens after that, but I would assume it just gets loaded on the plane. Incoming luggage is the same in reverse. And usually oversized luggage goes on it's special carousel off to the side of the main luggage claim carousel.

Cameras are EVERYWHERE back there. I'd imagine they are on the ramp too. This probably isn't SOP for all airports I'm sure, but the only time I could think of someone messing with your luggage is before it gets back there.

 

[Kyreb]

So the TSA is worried about other TSA/ airport employees slipping something in your case? I am going to assume they would be the only ones with access to it once you checked it in. That makes very little sense, but few things to do with government security do.

I think it was the only excuse they could come up with for the harassment. I really do not know how they kept a straight face when they hit us with that whopper.

 

[Kyreb]

I worked in the luggage area at Orlando. When things like long gun cases, golf clubs, surfboards, etc. were handled, they would go down their special oversized luggage chute and then taken to the airline's luggage carousel where they were then put on the luggage carts with the other luggage for that flight. My job never gave me clearance to go on the ramp so I don't know exactly what happens after that, but I would assume it just gets loaded on the plane. Incoming luggage is the same in reverse. And usually oversized luggage goes on it's special carousel off to the side of the main luggage claim carousel.

Cameras are EVERYWHERE back there. I'd imagine they are on the ramp too. This probably isn't SOP for all airports I'm sure, but the only time I could think of someone messing with your luggage is before it gets back there.

This was not the case in either airport. Long gun cases do not hit the carousel. The gun case was hand carried to me in Tampa. The same was supposed to happen in Hobby if TSA had got my case to the plane on time. They had almost 2 1/2 hours to do so. We checked in really early in case we had problems. Deep down I think they purposefully made sure my gun case missed my flight.

 

[matefrio]

Here is all you need to know and a bit more from a guy who flies all the time with guns: Packing & the Friendly Skies

 

[just jk]

when i worked for the FAA, i traveled with a laptop and small portable printer

some airports, they'd make me put the printer in a separate bin just like the laptop - other airports ignored it all together

the security principle is that if you're never operating the same way - the bad guys can't establish what the habits are......in theory anyway

but i'm not sure that even applies to the long gun scenario......govt agencies geographically fragmented are famous for interpreting policy different in one region than another......its maddening

 

[leonidas]

so the tsa is worried about other tsa/ airport employees slipping something in your case? I am going to assume they would be the only ones with access to it once you checked it in. That makes very little sense, but few things to do with government security do.

bingo!!!!!!!

 

[The Lox]

That's a bummer that your bag got misplaced on the way back. Since I work for SWA I would love to blame it on the TSA holding up your bag, but its a simple fact that SWA handles more bags than any other carrier and being perfect is a little bit of an unrealistic expectation.

I would LOVE to be able to fly with my rifles, but with the benefit of free flights comes an agreement that my luggage is not insured. So if my company were to permanently lose my stuff, I am just out of luck. So if I decide to fly with a rifle its going to be when I am a paying customer like everyone else.

They did deliver your luggage to you directly correct?

 

[Jason]

Any frequent flyers interested in a few Ravens for sale???

 

[drummingchevy]

I always thought that you had to have a lock on every part of the case that was designed for a lock. The gun itself doesn't have to be locked, just unloaded.

Last time I flew (Southwest), when I went to baggage claim they just had my guns come out on the normal carousel with all the other luggage. Anyone could have picked the case up and taken it with them. Needless to say, I will always stand right at the place on the carousel where the luggage first comes out even if it means pushing people out of the way.

 

[MR Redneck]

Glad you didnt get arrested because I would have. I have a habbit of getting all over stupid POS people who dont have enough brains to poor piss out of a boot!
I wouldnt trust that stupid garbage with a firearm no more than I would a drunk monkey!
Next time, send your guns to a FFL where ever your going and pick them up.
forgot to mention, sorry you didnt get to give the kid his new toy. Bet he would have loved it.

 

[ii]

Re: My TSA experience traveling with an EBR this past weekend FILE A COMPLAINT

Reporting Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Complaints

How can you report a civil rights or civil liberties complaint? There are a number of ways in which you can report a concern. You can pursue any of the following steps.
During travel: While you are still at the checkpoint, you can ask to speak with a supervisor about the incident. You can also ask to speak with the Customer Service Manager of the airport. Depending on the time of day during which you are traveling or the size of the airport, the Customer Service Manager may or may not be readily accessible to you at the airport.
After traveling: You may contact the External Compliance Division of TSA's Office of Civil Rights and Liberties to file a complaint.

Our mailing address is:

Transportation Security Administration
Office of Civil Rights and Liberties (TSA-6)
External Compliance Division
601 S. 12th Street
Arlington, VA 20598
​

Our email address is:

TSA.OCR-ExternalCompliance@dhs.gov​

You may also contact the Department of Homeland Security's Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties to file a complaint. The Department's procedures for filing and handling complaints can be found at: This Page has Moved | Department of Homeland Security.
What should be included in your complaint?
Your complaint should include a description of the incident. The description should include the date of the incident, the approximate time of the incident, the name of the airline carrier on which you were flying, and the name of the airport. The complaint should also explain what happened. The explanation should include why you feel the incident constituted a civil rights or civil liberties violation and why you feel you were discriminated, harassed, or retaliated against by a Transportation Security Officer in this incident.
What is a civil rights or civil liberties complaint?
Civil Rights – include the Constitutional rights to due process, and equal treatment under the law.
Civil Liberties – include the Constitutional freedoms of speech, religion, and assembly.
What is discrimination?
Discrimination – includes treating someone differently or less favorably because of a person’s race, national origin, age, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation, parental status or reprisal as compared to someone else under similar circumstances.
What will happen with your complaint?

• A Specialist will be assigned to handle your complaint.
• The Specialist's responsibility is to attempt to resolve your concern. The Specialist may conduct a fact-finding investigation into the alleged discriminatory act or incident.
• If a fact-finding investigation is conducted, the Office of Civil Rights and Liberties will review the available facts and will make findings as to whether or not the incident complained of constituted unlawful discrimination, harassment, or retaliation.
• The Office of Civil Rights and Liberties may also recommend measures be put in place, such as conducting additional training, to resolve the concern.

The Office of Civil Rights and Liberties will process external complaints filed up to 180 days after the date of the alleged discriminatory incident. However, the ability to conduct a successful fact-finding investigation is greatly limited when an extended period of time has passed between the date of the alleged discriminatory incident and the date of receipt of the complaint.
How to contact TSA on other matters, such as watch list issues, claims issues, general questions, or to share your opinions or comments with us.
For additional information and contact information concerning watch list issues, please see the DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program's webpage at: TSA: DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (DHS TRIP).
For additional information and contact information concerning claims issues, please see the TSA Claims Management Office's webpage at: TSA: Claims Management Branch.
To ask general questions or to share your opinions or comments with us, please see the TSA Contact Center's webpage at: http://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/default.aspx.

 

[ii]

Re: My TSA experience traveling with an EBR this past weekend FILE A COMPLAINT

Beat them at their own game and insure this guy does not receive another raise for his good preformance and customer service by filing a civil rights complaint!

 

[double_r76]

I wish I could say I was surprised by any of this... I used to work for TSA while I was waiting for the job I have now. The reality is that you should not have been allowed to check the case with only TSA locks on it. TSA defines a locked firearm case as one that *ONLY YOU* can open, which means TSA officers cannot open it outside of your presence. Also, if they cannot open the case with the number of locks you used, then it meets the criteria for a secured case regardless of the number of unused latches or hasps.

TSA: Traveling with Special Items

1. You should read the TSA website info regarding flying with firearms and ammo. Print it out if you think there may be problems with your items.

2. Make sure your items are compliant with the info from the TSA website.

3. Be prepared to show them their own guidance and demonstrate how you are in compliance.

4. Do like I did... get a job where you can fly armed and just carry them on.

Good luck,
-Randy

 

[Texan2]

i flew to LA recently and took my Glock. The counter folk at SWA and the TSA people acted like they couldnt care less about the firearm. In LA they were the same way. I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[CanTex]

After my last flight with TSA involvement I agree with anyone who feels the best way to fly with weapons is to take your car. While working for a company that had me fly all over to give customer service training I was required to carry a laptop and projector. I stopped by the TSA office and spoke with the on duty supervisor as I wanted to have a mini multi tool along with my equipment and not have to check luggage. Showed her the item and was advised that it was fine, however as there was a knife blade it should be under 1". So, I took and filed it down to 1/2 inch. 20 or so flights later I was returning home and the tool was noted. The kid said as he was not sure that it was legal, It had to be confiscated. His supervisor said, he was unsure so it had to be removed or.. I could go back through the line and have it put as checked luggage. As it had taken 1/2 hour to get to security... no way was I going that route.

Now, after the flight I did file a complaint with TSA. We are now about 2 years later. They have yet to respond, however I do tend to get a lot more of the "needs extra security checking" tickets.

I wish they would figure out that flying would be much safer if everyone was provided with a small pistol and only one bullet......

 

[MR Redneck]

i flew to LA recently and took my Glock. The counter folk at SWA and the TSA people acted like they couldnt care less about the firearm. In LA they were the same way. I was pleasantly surprised.

Did you show LE badge or somethin?

 

[Texan2]

Did you show LE badge or somethin?

no...checked it with my baggage like everybody else.