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Mass Shooting Averted by Quick Churchgoer Action

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  • leVieux

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    <>

    see: https://www.kadn.com/news/local/abb...cle_a536a3f0-0fb7-11ef-acc2-3fb16c85abc6.html


    This was in a normally peaceful small town, at a Church I & my Family have attended many times.

    Reports are that worshippers immediately saw, disarmed, & detained this black hoodie wearing wanna-be gunman before a shot was fired.

    Yet, our laws, like Texas’ insist on disarming likely defenders. . . . . . .

    Merci a Dieu !

    leVieux

    <>
    DK Firearms
     

    Catherine1

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    ^^^

    Hello,

    Thank you for putting this up.

    I saw this on the WWWeb when the story first came out elsewhere.

    They had the video of the Mass online with the news story but when I FIRST saw the story - I did NOT SEE the picture of the young man. I read about him.

    I am glad that NO one was hurt.

    It really makes me SICK TO THE STOMACH and more (!) when I think about how it USED TO BE when you could GO TO CHURCH OR TO SCHOOL or to ANY other place and not have criminals or criminal crazies or WARMONGERING PSYCHOTIC LEADERS and their dirty ILK want to HARM or murder you and other INNOCENT PEOPLE on a daily basis!

    A Church, a Temple, a Mosque, etc. should be a PLACE of safety and dedicated to worship and peace AND not be what some people have done to them!

    When I see people worship WAR and MURDER and all kinds of other HARM done to innocent CHILDREN, BABIES, the elderly and people in all age groups, nationalities, religions, colors, etc. - it makes me wonder WHO do they really worship in more ways than one?!

    I can't say more since it is NOT ALLOWED and some people here would get their knickers all twisted up since they have TUNNEL VISION in many national and international matters!

    Take care!

    Old Lady Cate
     
    Last edited:

    leVieux

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    Mar 28, 2013
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    ^^^

    Hello,

    Thank you for putting this up.

    I saw this on the WWWeb when the story first came out elsewhere.

    They had the video of the Mass online with the news story but when I FIRST saw the story - I did NOT SEE the picture of the young man. I read about him.

    I am glad that NO one was hurt.

    It really makes me SICK TO THE STOMACH and more (!) when I think about how it USED TO BE when you could GO TO CHURCH OR TO SCHOOL or to ANY other place and not have criminals or criminal crazies or WARMONGERING PSYCHOTIC LEADERS and their dirty ILK want to HARM or murder you and other INNOCENT PEOPLE on a daily basis!

    A Church, a Temple, a Mosque, etc. should be a PLACE of safety and dedicated to worship and peace AND not be what some people have done to them!

    When I see people worship WAR and MURDER and all kinds of other HARM done to innocent CHILDREN, BABIES, the elderly and people in all age groups, nationalities, religions, colors, etc. - it makes me wonder WHO do they really worship in more ways than one?!

    I can't say more since it is NOT ALLOWED and some people here would get their knickers all twisted up since they have TUNNEL VISION in many national and international matters!

    Take care!

    Old Lady Cate
    <>

    My adult Daughters belonged to that Church Parish for years. The story I heard was that there were two men standing by the door the gunman entered. One man grabbed the rifle, while the other caught the Teen; he was immediately disarmed & subdued on entry.

    Our Church Parishes & Dioceses have adamantly refused to allow effective security measures to be instituted. For instance, one Parish which was under specific credible threat of terrorist attack, refused to secure any of the five entry doors kept unlocked & unattended during services.

    Extralegally armed citizen churchgoers should have some pre-agreed response plan in order to avoid pandemonium and accidental injury to each-other & innocent attendees; but the hierarchy adamantly refuses.

    There is very little a lone armed defensive person with a handgun could do against a rifleman inside a packed Church.

    Meanwhile our laws restrict defenders, while being totally ineffective against deranged terrorists.

    leVieux
     

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    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 28, 2013
    7,256
    96
    The Trans-Sabine
    ^^^

    Hello,

    Thank you for putting this up.

    I saw this on the WWWeb when the story first came out elsewhere.

    They had the video of the Mass online with the news story but when I FIRST saw the story - I did NOT SEE the picture of the young man. I read about him.

    I am glad that NO one was hurt.

    It really makes me SICK TO THE STOMACH and more (!) when I think about how it USED TO BE when you could GO TO CHURCH OR TO SCHOOL or to ANY other place and not have criminals or criminal crazies or WARMONGERING PSYCHOTIC LEADERS and their dirty ILK want to HARM or murder you and other INNOCENT PEOPLE on a daily basis!

    A Church, a Temple, a Mosque, etc. should be a PLACE of safety and dedicated to worship and peace AND not be what some people have done to them!

    When I see people worship WAR and MURDER and all kinds of other HARM done to innocent CHILDREN, BABIES, the elderly and people in all age groups, nationalities, religions, colors, etc. - it makes me wonder WHO do they really worship in more ways than one?!

    I can't say more since it is NOT ALLOWED and some people here would get their knickers all twisted up since they have TUNNEL VISION in many national and international matters!

    Take care!

    Old Lady Cate
    <>

    How many times must we all see heavily armed & armored Police swarming a criminal massacre scene, having arrived too late to help, after the fact ?

    Fate had two strong men standing at that door.

    This was a First Holy Communion Mass for 50 young children ages 6 & 7 years, first or second grader’s. Imagine what almost happened.

    We must eliminate those dastardly ‘’Gun Free Zones’’ to afford reasonable protection for our innocents !

    Yes, these ‘’mass shooters’’ are a product of corruption of our society by globalists/socialists.

    Humanity has never done so well as when guided by our Holy Bibles & governed under the U S Constitution.

    leVieux
     

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    D0ntTr3@d0nM3

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    Apr 25, 2024
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    Richmond, TX
    <>

    see: https://www.kadn.com/news/local/abb...cle_a536a3f0-0fb7-11ef-acc2-3fb16c85abc6.html


    This was in a normally peaceful small town, at a Church I & my Family have attended many times.

    Reports are that worshippers immediately saw, disarmed, & detained this black hoodie wearing wanna-be gunman before a shot was fired.

    Yet, our laws, like Texas’ insist on disarming likely defenders. . . . . . .

    Merci a Dieu !

    leVieux

    <>
    Curious as to what Texas laws you are talking about that disarm defenders?
     

    D0ntTr3@d0nM3

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    Apr 25, 2024
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    Richmond, TX
    <>

    My adult Daughters belonged to that Church Parish for years. The story I heard was that there were two men standing by the door the gunman entered. One man grabbed the rifle, while the other caught the Teen; he was immediately disarmed & subdued on entry.

    Our Church Parishes & Dioceses have adamantly refused to allow effective security measures to be instituted. For instance, one Parish which was under specific credible threat of terrorist attack, refused to secure any of the five entry doors kept unlocked & unattended during services.

    Extralegally armed citizen churchgoers should have some pre-agreed response plan in order to avoid pandemonium and accidental injury to each-other & innocent attendees; but the hierarchy adamantly refuses.

    There is very little a lone armed defensive person with a handgun could do against a rifleman inside a packed Church.

    Meanwhile our laws restrict defenders, while being totally ineffective against deranged terrorists.

    leVieux
    The church I go to, River Point Church, has at least 3-4 police officers walking around at any given time. A couple of Sundays ago when I was there I was open carrying my EDC and the first thing I did when I got there was went up and asked one of them if I was ok or if I needed to untuck my shirt. He told me I couldn't open carry and I had to go put it in my vehicle. But he also said if I conceal carry that's perfectly fine and they appreciate the support and backup.
     

    leVieux

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    Curious as to what Texas laws you are talking about that disarm defenders?

    <>

    Restrictions on ‘’church carry’’ in multiple laws.

    Just as hospital lobbyists had them put in for their clients. Post offices, libraires, Schools. . . . . .

    The admitted #1 source if guns used in crime is theft from autos & trucks.

    Why are handguns left in vehicles ?

    See the first two lines above !

    Were there not all those restrictions on noncriminals; ‘’infringements’’; we’d be carrying the guns, not leaving them in vehicles.

    ‘’Connect the dots. . . . . ‘’

    leVieux

    <>
     

    D0ntTr3@d0nM3

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    <>

    Restrictions on ‘’church carry’’ in multiple laws.

    Just as hospital lobbyists had them put in for their clients. Post offices, libraires, Schools. . . . . .

    The admitted #1 source if guns used in crime is theft from autos & trucks.

    Why are handguns left in vehicles ?

    See the first two lines above !

    Were there not all those restrictions on noncriminals; ‘’infringements’’; we’d be carrying the guns, not leaving them in vehicles.

    ‘’Connect the dots. . . . . ‘’

    leVieux

    <>
    I just didn't know if you meant there was a new Texas law passed or something banning fire arms from all churches or something like that. I agree though that gun free zones are perfect places for criminals to choose as a target. After all why choose a place where your victims can defend themselves? You'd think that it would be part of the "common sense" gun laws talk. Any time they want to pass another ridiculous law they always try to sugar coat it or justify it by calling it a common sense gun law.
     

    leVieux

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    Our domestic enemies are intent on disarming us all; & they care not a bit about public safety or the U S Constitution !

    That is the big WHY no biased Judge should ever be approved.

    It takes a. . . . . REVOLUTION !

    leVieux

    <>
     

    leVieux

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    Well, not with that defeatist attitude.
    <>

    Some 7 or 8 years back our prior Church in N.O. got a serious credible threat from a known terrorist organization.

    Our ArchBishop, Gregory Aymond, who had recently been Bishop of Austin Diocese, asked for Parishoner’s & Pastor to come up with defensive plan.

    We had some serious expertise in our congregation, including active Police, Police Detectives, recent ex-Military, etc.

    Our committee did have several observations & suggestions; but the reality was that neither Pastor nor Bishop would allow riflemen, even concealed, during services.

    Churches are large inside, gunfight distances could exceed 200’. Poiice ‘’intelligence‘’ said terrorists likely had AR15’s & up.

    So, scenarios included battle b/t BG’s w/ rifles & Worshipers w/ concealable pistols at 200’ distances w/ large numbers of innocents in between.

    Not encouraging, was it ?

    Of course, something is better than nothing, we’d be at big disadvantages.

    In the end, nothing happened. Worse, new Pastor’s ONLY ‘’plan’’ was ‘’Somebody, call 911’’ !

    Even worse, we were adamant that four of the the five completely unsecured entrance doors get one-way emergency lockups, and the main door be guarded by concealed carriers.

    Even that minimum security effort was rejected.

    So far, they’ve been lucky !

    leVieux

    <>
     

    seeker_two

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    That place east of Waco....
    <>

    Some 7 or 8 years back our prior Church in N.O. got a serious credible threat from a known terrorist organization.

    Our ArchBishop, Gregory Aymond, who had recently been Bishop of Austin Diocese, asked for Parishoner’s & Pastor to come up with defensive plan.

    We had some serious expertise in our congregation, including active Police, Police Detectives, recent ex-Military, etc.

    Our committee did have several observations & suggestions; but the reality was that neither Pastor nor Bishop would allow riflemen, even concealed, during services.

    Churches are large inside, gunfight distances could exceed 200’. Poiice ‘’intelligence‘’ said terrorists likely had AR15’s & up.

    So, scenarios included battle b/t BG’s w/ rifles & Worshipers w/ concealable pistols at 200’ distances w/ large numbers of innocents in between.

    Not encouraging, was it ?

    Of course, something is better than nothing, we’d be at big disadvantages.

    In the end, nothing happened. Worse, new Pastor’s ONLY ‘’plan’’ was ‘’Somebody, call 911’’ !

    Even worse, we were adamant that four of the the five completely unsecured entrance doors get one-way emergency lockups, and the main door be guarded by concealed carriers.

    Even that minimum security effort was rejected.

    So far, they’ve been lucky !

    leVieux

    <>

    I'm not sure how your management hierarchy is set up, but is there a way that the parishioners can override the Pastor's ruling and implement the security measures without his permission?
     

    leVieux

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    I'm not sure how your management hierarchy is set up, but is there a way that the parishioners can override the Pastor's ruling and implement the security measures without his permission?
    <>

    Not officially.

    A lot of our problem, in all states, is that our legislators serve corporate lobbyists rather than their citizen constituents.

    For instance, many Nurses & Physicians carry in their hospitals, even though the lobbyist/legislator cabal has made that illegal.

    An infamous case a couple years back told of a New England Physician w/ carry license, who had been threatened by a Psych patient. The gun-armed patient broke-in and tried to kill the Doc, who fatally shot the Psycho.

    They fired & prosecuted the Doc.

    <>
     
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    leVieux

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    I'm not sure I'd attend a church that continued to endanger me and mine while prohibiting the means for self-protection. Only restriction at my church is no open carry....don't want to distract others from God's message.

    Lots of wolves in sheep's clothing these days....some even in the pulpit.
    <>

    Yes, our Pastor carries.

    But, WHY are innocent citizens continually forced into dangerous compromises by legislators caving to industry lobbyists instead of following our Constitution and protecting those innocent citizens ?

    We know WHY, don’t we ?

    Our governments at all levels are riddled with CORRUPTION !

    leVieux

    <>
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    Our committee did have several observations & suggestions; but the reality was that neither Pastor nor Bishop would allow riflemen, even concealed, during services.

    Churches are large inside, gunfight distances could exceed 200’. Poiice ‘’intelligence‘’ said terrorists likely had AR15’s & up.

    So, scenarios included battle b/t BG’s w/ rifles & Worshipers w/ concealable pistols at 200’ distances w/ large numbers of innocents in between.

    Not encouraging, was it ?

    And yet the church mention in the OP stopped a rifleman in a church with unarmed parishioners.

    Your priest is right to have concerns, maybe misplaced as they are. The crowded aspect is a problem whether the defenders have rifles or they have pistols or shotguns. Mindset and attitude go a long way and I am afraid your church isn't there yet.

    Ideally, if you have a large church and you have an armed security team, they aren't all in one place and so ideally should not all be 200 feet from the shooter. The advantage the security team and or armed worshippers have is that they know who the gunman is (he is the one shooting worshippers, but he doesn't know who is armed and if the place is crowded, won't have much of a clue where shots are coming from. He will have to find the shooter(s) from the hundreds of potential targets.

    As for "terrorists" carrying AR15s and on up, I don't recall the last time a church on US soil was attacked by "terrorists" but if that does happen that a squad of heavily armed terrorists with AR15s and on up attacks a church, my guess is that few churches have the people with the tools and training necessary to put down such an attack. Even with the deep pockets of Joel Olsteen and the shooter at his church that was guard by a bunch of armed LEOs along with non LEO security staff had trouble taking down a lone shooter. Why? They were scared. Mindset and attitude.

    Let's face it, by and large your typical church shooter isn't a commando from a terrorist cell, straight from a middle east training camp. They are mentally disturbed people with poor to decent gun skills. Some of them are terrorists as defined by the fact that their motivation was political, religious, etc. (as described by the FBI's definition of 'terrorist'), but a poorly trained "terrorist" with a rifle is no better than a poorly trained love sick idiot who wants revenge on his ex in a small Texas town. Such people only manage high body counts when there is no opposition and usually stop racking up significant numbers after encountering sustained armed opposition. As evidenced by Columbine and a few other places, when shooters encounter armed opposition that backs off, the shooters will continue their rampaging and Klebold and Harris did exchange shots with a SRO who did not pursue and helped coordinate the whole surround and contain doctrine of the time, which allowed the shooters to work largely unmolested.
     
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