Legalized Pot

[Younggun]

No, I am not a troll. Maybe I should have said 'all tobacco crops'. regardless of that, I stand by my statement. Pot should be legal, and tobacco cigarettes should be banned.

I watched my father die a long and painful death from lung cancer due to a lifelong habit of smoking. In this day and age with all of the solid evidence we have regarding cancer from tobacco, anyone who smokes is foolish.

Yes, I believe that it should be banned. The enormous cost to our society from the effects of cancer due to smoking far outweigh any ill effects (if there are any) from pot usage. And no, I do not believe that marijuana is a 'gateway drug' as was once asserted by our government in it's ill-advised and impotent 'war on drugs'.

Lastly, 'Younggun', let me say this, regarding your 'troll' and 'stupid post' comment - 'A man has lost his argument when he resorts to name-calling.' Why not state your argument with class, tact and some well thought out reasoning?

Because you didn't. There is no well thought out reasoning in your post.

Your father made a CHOICE to smoke. He also made the CHOICE to continue smoking. He was not forced, and unless he lived under a rock or you are older than maturity of your posts implies, he knew the risks if smoking and chose to continue doing so.

That's what happens when people have freedom. They get to make choices.


To say pot usage has no negative health effects is just plain stupid. That's not being mean, it's being honest. But that is a choice people have the right to make also.

So what, you want to ban booze and tobacco. That just puts something else at the top. It becomes the worst and so it should be banned. It is the worst after all. The. On to the next.


No, you had a personal experience and instead of putting the blame on the person who made the CHOICE, you put the blame on something that was inanimate.

I'm sorry for what happened to you (or maybe just being polite), but your logic is seriously flawed. You are simply asking for more nanny state regulation to tell people what's good for them.

Booze isn't responsible for anything, neither is tobacco. The people who made the choice to use them irresponsibly are.


That glaring lack of logic is the reason I made the troll comment. It just seemed entirely too unreasonable for someone to post with any intent other than to rustle some jimmies.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Actually, there is a means to test it. THC levels in blood can easily be tested. Studies have been done for many other compounds to discover the amount required to cause inhibition, same could be, and probably has been, done for pot.

Being against gov regulation doesn't mean being "pro free shit". Giving away pot for medical use is part of a bigger issue unrelated to marijuana.

As far as the cost to society...weighed against the cost if the war on drugs, and further weighed against the fact that much of the costs to taxpayers aside from the war on drugs comes from bailing out bad choices, the drug itself is a very small part of the problem.

Its not easy to test on the side of the highway.

As for 'medical' use, sadly no one knows that answer. If you in Ca or Wa, a hangnail will get you a prescription, so will PTSD, which is like telling a soldier with PTSD the solution is in a bottle of booze.

You missed my point completely! When do we stop ADDING to the cost of society, arguments saying that x is worse, don't hold water, trying to justify the legalization of pot by saying the cost of tobacco or booze is worse does not stand. We cannot just keep adding on and adding on to the cost of society, especially when only about 99M folks are paying the tab for the rest.

Its complex, sure, and sure the war on drugs does not work, nor did prohibition, nor does laws like in Texas (no hard liquor sales after 9 pm or before 9am or on Sunday. What the answer is and where we draw a line I cannot answer because I can make an argument for either side. Its MY head, MY motorcycle, MY choice and those who argue against say its a cost to society to pay for your accident where you are semi brain dead.

Seat belts, buckle up, its the LAW! Why? I personally did not start wearing seat belts full time until I moved to Scottsdale AZ back in 2003, not because it was the law, but because those are the worst drivers in the US I have ever seen...

I don't have an answer....

 

[Younggun]

My point was that we could REDUCE the cost to society by dropping the BS "war on drugs" and make people responsible for their own choices.

Not sure how you get pot for PTSD. Especially if you haven't been discharged yet. I would have to look further into that. As far as medical marijuana for a hang nail, sounds like it would simply be a form of medical fraud. But who knows, not sure of their laws.

 

[Mike1234567]

My point was that we could REDUCE the cost to society by dropping the BS "war on drugs" and make people responsible for their own choices.

Not sure how you get pot for PTSD. Especially if you haven't been discharged yet. I would have to look further into that. As far as medical marijuana for a hang nail, sounds like it would simply be a form of medical fraud. But who knows, not sure of their laws.

Not everyone with PTSD is or ever was a soldier or Marine.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

My point was that we could REDUCE the cost to society by dropping the BS "war on drugs" and make people responsible for their own choices.

Not sure how you get pot for PTSD. Especially if you haven't been discharged yet. I would have to look further into that. As far as medical marijuana for a hang nail, sounds like it would simply be a form of medical fraud. But who knows, not sure of their laws.

We do not know that, that is an unknown, I gave the example of China and the opium dens. Bottom line there is a cost to society be it war on drugs or the cost of more drug users. Think methadone free clinics and if go legal on pot, where does it stop? Cocaine, meth, heroin, etc. There is no free lunch here and I doubt a cost savings to end the war on drugs, just a cost shift. Ending the war on drugs has an impact, now the drug cartel operates freely across the US, I suspect there is a cost for this to the taxpayer. Or we could just open the gates and let the govt(s) state/fed be the drug dealer and bring the cartel to its knees. That said it will NOT end illegal sales just create a 'mom and pop' business across the US. We can still by legal booze on illegal Sunday if you know where to go.

Yep its a mess, danged if you do, danged if you do not and none of us have an answer...

 

[dwsintxs]

Because you didn't. There is no well thought out reasoning in your post.

Your father made a CHOICE to smoke. He also made the CHOICE to continue smoking. He was not forced, and unless he lived under a rock or you are older than maturity of your posts implies, he knew the risks if smoking and chose to continue doing so.

That's what happens when people have freedom. They get to make choices.


To say pot usage has no negative health effects is just plain stupid. That's not being mean, it's being honest. But that is a choice people have the right to make also.

So what, you want to ban booze and tobacco. That just puts something else at the top. It becomes the worst and so it should be banned. It is the worst after all. The. On to the next.


No, you had a personal experience and instead of putting the blame on the person who made the CHOICE, you put the blame on something that was inanimate.

I'm sorry for what happened to you (or maybe just being polite), but your logic is seriously flawed. You are simply asking for more nanny state regulation to tell people what's good for them.

Booze isn't responsible for anything, neither is tobacco. The people who made the choice to use them irresponsibly are.


That glaring lack of logic is the reason I made the troll comment. It just seemed entirely too unreasonable for someone to post with any intent other than to rustle some jimmies.

Thank you for you wisdom in setting me straight.
You are correct (as I am sure you are on every subject) that my father made the choice and his choice, ultimately killed him. That said, he grew up in an era when cigarette ads touted the health benefits of smoking and many doctors at the time advocated smoking. Surely he was a fool to believe those persons.

I suppose that what I find most fault with, in regards to smoking is our government getting tax revenue from it, and also from alcohol. By doing so, I believe that they condone it. Sure, people have a 'choice' to believe them or not, and we all have a choice for all of our own actions and will suffer the consequences accordingly. (I am also against most if not all taxation of any sort)

I have the choice too, to be out in public and I detest it when there are smokers around and I have to breathe the 2nd hand smoke because of their choices. (I know. . . your answer is that I have a choice to leave) Nowadays the smokers have managed an end-around to the non-smoking areas in public and we are now subjected to their ridiculous e-cigarettes stinkage.

Again, you are correct. I was wrong to want to ban alcohol and cigarettes. I will now succumb to your wisdom and refine my stance. Let the smokers smoke, and good riddance to them when they die of cancer due to their own choices. Let the alcoholics too, drink to their hearts content and let them die of liver failure in doing so. If they just happen to drive drunk and kill innocent citizens then that's just too bad. (those innocent citizens killed had the CHOICE to NOT be on that highway with the drunk drivers after all).

It's all cool because it's their choice. I congratulate them all on their choices and if their choices are too hasten their own deaths, then we are all better off without them.

Lastly, I too, love my country and my state, and yes I do have a problem with both, but I do NOT plan on Getting TFO as I see you have said. Why? Because I have the RIGHT and the CHOICE to say what I feel. As a taxpayer I help pay the salaries of our elected officials in government, and that allows me to offer my opinions on what's going on in this country.

 

[Younggun]

Killing people with your car violates their rights and is illegal. Drunk or not. If someone does so, they made a choice and should be held accountable.


You think there should be no taxes yet the gov should enforce bans on things? How do you plan to fund all of the government intrusion you seem to be so fond of? How do you plan to pay the government for keeping you safe?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I believe in freedom, but having all these social programs eliminates the consequences of risky action. For freedom to work there has to be natural repercussions for people's decisions.

For example, you can't have food stamps, free healthcare and welfare and them have a bunch of folks smoking weed or getting drunk and sitting on their backsides. There are interdependencies.

If you sit on your ass high every day society should allow you to be homeless and starve. When you try to steal to feed your addiction because you have no job them society should fast track and dismiss the charges when someone puts some rounds in you.

The problem isn't the occasional pot smoker. The problem is the "takers." The real problem is social programs not weed.

Churches and other civic organizations should try to help the ones that ask for help. The others have made their choices and a free society should allow them to suffer the consequences.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Freedom - most folks can't handle it.

 

[karlac]

Freedom - most folks can't handle it.

There it is, right there. In a nutshell...

 

[breakingcontact]

Freedom - most folks can't handle it.

Agree with this anyways. Now...what to do about it. Nothing you say? Just let them suffer their own consequences? We all suffer then.

 

[Younggun]

Freedom - most folks can't handle it.

And catering to those who can't is doing far more damage to society than the freedom some wish to protect us from.

 

[breakingcontact]

And catering to those who can't is doing far more damage to society than the freedom some wish to protect us from.

Catering to those who cant by? You talking about welfare society or prison or?

Im a rare conservative in that I think most of the war on drugs is pointless. Not really for legalization either though so im not the L word. But having cops get shot in drug raids and locking up non violent druggies is completely nuts.

 

[Younggun]

Catering to those who cant by? You talking about welfare society or prison or?

Im a rare conservative in that I think most of the war on drugs is pointless. Not really for legalization either though so im not the L word. But having cops get shot in drug raids and locking up non violent druggies is completely nuts.

Rather than me type it again, check out MHs post 288.

 

[breakingcontact]

Rather than me type it again, check out MHs post 288.

So the revocation of the social welfare state is more likely to happen incrementally or in one fell swoop?

Whats the most feasible way for this to happen?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

It took almost a century to be the full on socialists we are. It would probably take many decades to slowly change it all back.

I think a cold turkey change would cause chaos and put our nation in a very dark and externally vulnerable place

But the things in life that are hard fought and take long term commitment are often the most rewarding.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

It could be a moot point. Everyone dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency could accelerate a lot of this and force us into small government, or into a much worse state of affairs based on how "the people" respond.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

And to reiterate just because I'm a hippie - NO - I don't smoke pot. My argument is based on principle not my own self interest.

 

[breakingcontact]

It could be a moot point. Everyone dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency could accelerate a lot of this and force us into small government, or into a much worse state of affairs based on how "the people" respond.

This is where I see us heading. Either into a hard left socialism or some nationalist fasicsm.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Ha ha, you mean well still be picking only Ds or Rs? LOL