I see why Hollywood is afraid of firearms - Alec Baldwin kills set employee

[benenglish]

They use live ammo for some shots.

I remember watching an old interview with James Cagney who (for the youngsters here) starred in several gangster movies back when they were all the rage, in the 1930s. He was asked about the use of guns on set and specifically about the realistic bullet impacts near him in gunfights. He was pretty blase' about the whole thing. They just used real bullets.

It's amazing to see both a high-dollar actor and real bullet impacts in the same shot.

ETA - Found the clip.

 

[benenglish]

I called him out on Twitter

I don't think that's fair.

Hitchcock said that "Actors are cattle." You don't expect them to be smart. You don't expect them to know what they're doing. They're just supposed to look like they know what they're doing. They do that by doing what experts tell them to do, on set and often for many months prior to photography.

Few movies are as gun-centric as John Wick, which required real training with real firearms for months. Keanu Reeves came out of that training good enough to kick ass at most defensive pistol matches. He came out a very safe shooter, intimately familiar with the four rules. In an earlier time, Jerry Lewis and Sammy Davis Jr. were world-class experts with (certain types of) firearms.

But that wasn't the standard for the actor in this case. Nowhere close to it.

The fault lies with the gun wrangler, the "master of arms", on the set. Whoever that was needs to lose his livelihood, at minimum.

Baldwin? Sure, we can throw a little blame on him but not much. Unfortunately, the fact is that the four rules don't always apply. Jeff Cooper pointed out that he had to disobey them regularly when posing for photographs. Actors, to make realistic movies where they're doing things we would never do while being safe with firearms, essentially have a job that requires them to ignore the four rules. They rely completely on the guy responsible for the guns; that's their job.

I actually feel sorry for Baldwin. He caused a death because he did his job; he trusted the gun wrangler. He's gotta be going through hell right now.

 

[Chuckles]

He's gotta be going through hell right now.

I surely hope so.

 

[tonelar]

i worked in that industry prior to firefighting

i’ll bet they wanted the gun pointed into the camera…

it’s the most likely way you’d hit the cinematographer AND director with the same shot

camera operators are next to their cameras

 

[seeker_two]

I don't think that's fair.

Hitchcock said that "Actors are cattle." You don't expect them to be smart. You don't expect them to know what they're doing. They're just supposed to look like they know what they're doing. They do that by doing what experts tell them to do, on set and often for many months prior to photography.

Few movies are as gun-centric as John Wick, which required real training with real firearms for months. Keanu Reeves came out of that training good enough to kick ass at most defensive pistol matches. He came out a very safe shooter, intimately familiar with the four rules. In an earlier time, Jerry Lewis and Sammy Davis Jr. were world-class experts with (certain types of) firearms.

But that wasn't the standard for the actor in this case. Nowhere close to it.

The fault lies with the gun wrangler, the "master of arms", on the set. Whoever that was needs to lose his livelihood, at minimum.

Baldwin? Sure, we can throw a little blame on him but not much. Unfortunately, the fact is that the four rules don't always apply. Jeff Cooper pointed out that he had to disobey them regularly when posing for photographs. Actors, to make realistic movies where they're doing things we would never do while being safe with firearms, essentially have a job that requires them to ignore the four rules. They rely completely on the guy responsible for the guns; that's their job.

I actually feel sorry for Baldwin. He caused a death because he did his job; he trusted the gun wrangler. He's gotta be going through hell right now.

I have to disagree. Baldwin has done enough action movies that he should know the basics of prop gun safety. He shouldn't have had that firearm pointed at anyone....much less the DOP. He has some culpability in this, and I hope he is held accountable for it....even if it's only by SAG.

 

[Younggun]

Watched a lot of movies where guns are pointed at people. Some of them would be pretty tough to make otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Glenn B]

Wow. Who the hell allowed live ammo on the set?

The "master of arms" on set, aka the gun wrangler. I hope that, whoever he is, he never works in that job again.

While it may have been the "gun wrangler" who maybe allowed live ammo onto the set or otherwise did not follow the rules and thus contributed to the death - you cannot say so with certainty, at this point, that he or she was responsible for live ammo being allowed onto the set if indeed it was a live round. For all anyone knows right now, it could be that someone on the set placed a live round into the gun in the hope someone would be shot at random (there are lots of sickos out there, especially in Hollyweird) or it could have been outright premeditated murder committed by Baldwin. Now while those may seem far fetched and extremely doubtful, they are not outside the realm of possibility, stranger crimes have been committed. I would think it prudent to have a a much higher amount of substantiated facts before condemning anyone for this tragedy and any criminal act that may have been involved.

 

[Hoji]

i worked in that industry prior to firefighting

i’ll bet they wanted the gun pointed into the camera…

it’s the most likely way you’d hit the cinematographer AND director with the same shot

camera operators are next to their cameras

Or, he was screwing around between takes and “expressing an opinion” to the cinematographer and director about the number of takes the shot was taking. I worked in that field before getting a real job too. Seen a ton of “talent” temper tantrums.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Needs to be held 100% responsible as well as Bannned from movie making.

 

[Glenn B]

They use live ammo for some shots. This dumbass said he didn't know what rounds were in it. Had to be a revolver since it is a western.

"Had to be a revolver since it is a western" - I guess you have not seen all that many westerns. I seem to remember seeing lots of derringers used in them. I have also seen at least a few with semiautomatic pistols. Western movies in which at least one semi-auto pistol was used and that come to mind immediately are: Big Jake, Duck You Sucker, The Professionals, Joe Kidd and The Wild Bunch.

 

[TreyG-20]

I have a hard time sympathizing for Alec Baldwin. Maybe not be completely his fault, but the dude is a hot headed POS and deserves no remorse from the gun community. Sorry for the victims family though.

I bet money Alec blames the gun eventually.

 

[Hoji]

I have a hard time sympathizing for Alec Baldwin. Maybe not be completely his fault, but the dude is a hot headed POS and deserves no remorse from the gun community. Sorry for the victims family though.

I bet money Alec blames the gun eventually.

 

[Texasgordo]

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That didn't age well

 

[vmax]

talk about mixed feelings.. I am truly sorry for the young ladies life that was lost.
however, I can muster no such feelings or sympathy for that sorry son of a bitch Alec Baldwin.

 

[Byrd666]

That self righteous, holier than thou prick won't get a drop of sympathy from me.

The affected families will.

 

[MTA]

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Surprised twitter didnt help him out by deleting those for him. I always hated him and his brothers

 

[benenglish]

For all anyone knows right now, it could be that someone on the set placed a live round into the gun in the hope someone would be shot at random (there are lots of sickos out there, especially in Hollyweird) or it could have been outright premeditated murder committed by Baldwin.

Granted. Completely.

If someone set out to deliberately circumvent the on-set master of arms, then this "accident" could definitely happen. It could happen as easily as it would be for me to turn off the road and run over pedestrians on the sidewalk. We know it can and, indeed, has happened. We also know that it's so statistically rare that, for the purposes of policy-making, it's a non-existent phenomenon.

While it's normally the job of the gun wrangler to make sure no one shoots anyone, if it was a deliberate act then I'm completely wrong about everything I've said on the subject of responsibility in this case.

I freely admit that.

But my mind would have never gone there on its own. Thanks (I think?!?) for the broader perspective.

 

[benenglish]

I would think it prudent to have a a much higher amount of substantiated facts before condemning anyone

Agreed. We should know in very short order if it was a bullet fired from a cartridge or something stuck in the barrel that was blown out by a blank. That will clarify things substantially.

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

I have a hard time sympathizing for Alec Baldwin. Maybe not be completely his fault, but the dude is a hot headed POS and deserves no remorse from the gun community. Sorry for the victims family though.

I bet money Alec blames the gun eventually.

Baldwin has blamed "someone" else for handing him a loaded gun. To be fair, I would not hand him an empty water gun let alone any real firearm.

 

[benenglish]

A sample of tweets on the subject. Some are pretty good if dark humor is your thing; I know some of you qualify. The one by Michael Malice is gold.