Hand Loads for Self Defense

[bones_708]

I wouldn't think twice about it. I've got hand loaded hollow points in my "convenient" pistol. If the BG comes into my house, where does it say what I can or can't shoot him with? To me, this whole argument is ridiculous. If I was sitting on the couch with a .50 BMG, and I shot him with that - it makes me fail because that's a "man-killer" round? pffft - please.

One we are not just talking about shootings that happen in your house. Two besides the who mankiller thing there is the concern with forensic accuracy which is almost impossible with most people and their handloads.

 

[HighplainsMudder]

I do carry home rolled for SD. I have ran tests to check and like what I get but thats not why I carry my own reloads. I can't afford to shoot the hundreds of rounds of factory made to check jam reliability where as I do shoot 50 to 100 rounds of my own loads every week. Might not be the best reason but it's mine. Until I win a lotto I'll stick to it.

 

[Younggun]

What type of tests did you run?

I'm not saying your ammo is bad, but many home test are pretty misleading.

 

[HighplainsMudder]

What type of tests did you run?

I'm not saying your ammo is bad, but many home test are pretty misleading.

I know where you are coming from.
First I mixed up some ballistic gel for expansion and penetration
Then I got a 100 pound pig to see how they did hitting bone, and yes I ate the pig when I got done.
In the gel it expanded well but only penetrated about 10 in. ,I don't load them real hot
On the pig it busted the ribs and stopped in the off side with a nice wound channel. Might not be the best test but works for me.

 

[Younggun]

I only ask cause I've hear of people bragging about expansion based on water jugs and the like.

Sounds like you were as thorough as possible and I'm going to assume since you went to that much trouble you know enough about mixing ballistic gel to get it right.



Sounds like your know your load and happy with it. What bullets are you using?

 

[HighplainsMudder]

I

I only ask cause I've hear of people bragging about expansion based on water jugs and the like.

Sounds like you were as thorough as possible and I'm going to assume since you went to that much trouble you know enough about mixing ballistic gel to get it right.



Sounds like your know your load and happy with it. What bullets are you using?

I'm only so so with gel, thats why I used the pig, chest was about the same size as a man. I'm useing Hornady XTP 115 JHP. Not the best cal but I was reloading 9mm for 4 family members and I desided to switch from my 5 shot 357 for CCW. It is nice to know I have 11 rounds now...lol...but do miss how well that little 5 shot road IWB and never printed.

 

[M. Sage]

You're less than so-so with gel. You're way under any respected standard. 11.9" would be "so-so." 10" is a hard fail.

 

[HighplainsMudder]

The 10in was an eyeball assessment, wasn't using gel to check penetration, didn't use tape to measure was just checking bullet upset among 5 different bullet brands. They were all loaded with same powder charge and printed nice groups in all our pistols. The pig gave me real life penetration and damage assessment. But I guess I should have dressed him in a flannel shirt and Levi jacket for a real test. I also didn't try my round on auto glass but I'm not FBI. Not sure how often reloads come into play in Court but have read enough times of over penetration causing bystanders getting hit from bullets passing thru . Not telling people to do as I do just what I do

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

One of the old standards was about 9". This was prior to consideration of any but frontal shots.

Hornady XTP is a "caliber and a half" expander. It will do this through a wide range of velocities.

Were I you, I'd push it just a bit harder, or, if you have a 4.5" barrel minimum, up to 124 grain.

Regards,

Josh

 

[M. Sage]

The 10in was an eyeball assessment, wasn't using gel to check penetration, didn't use tape to measure was just checking bullet upset among 5 different bullet brands. They were all loaded with same powder charge and printed nice groups in all our pistols. The pig gave me real life penetration and damage assessment. But I guess I should have dressed him in a flannel shirt and Levi jacket for a real test. I also didn't try my round on auto glass but I'm not FBI. Not sure how often reloads come into play in Court but have read enough times of over penetration causing bystanders getting hit from bullets passing thru . Not telling people to do as I do just what I do

You said you used gel but not for penetration tests? Frankly, that doesn't make sense. That's the test the stuff exists for. The reason animals and cadavers aren't used and gelatin is is for repeatability. One is a consistent medium without variables, the other is extremely inconsistent with possible variables too numerous to list.

 

[HighplainsMudder]

You said you used gel but not for penetration tests? Frankly, that doesn't make sense. That's the test the stuff exists for. The reason animals and cadavers aren't used and gelatin is is for repeatability. One is a consistent medium without variables, the other is extremely inconsistent with possible variables too numerous to list.

I agree with you on the main points. All I was using the gel for was to compare the 5 different bullets for upset and wound channel. I also agree about animals being inconsistent, bones have a way to deflect bullets at weird angles. Until about 10 years ago I always filled my deer tags and made extra money taking and selling pelts. After the hundreds of animals I've killed I found that all the hype I read about bullets tested in gel, that in real life they didn't always stack up. So I take gel tests with a grain of salt and test on animals before I believe. Until I can afford to run a few hundred rounds of something like Fed.Crit.Def. rounds thu our autos I'll stick with what I have. I also agree with Josh about boosting the power up and as soon as my brothers girls can handle the kick and still double tap as well as they can now I will. Now if your a good Texas brother you could slide me 6 or 7 hundred dollars and I could jam test our autos.

 

[M. Sage]

Ah... so you're one of those who thinks that hunting puts you on par with the doctors who had careers of trearing gun shot wounds (the IWBA).

Look, the truth about handgun bullets is the wound tract is the same no matter what. The only difference is how deep it goes because they lack the velocity to do anything more than push a hole through tissue. They don't (can't) do the things rifle bullets can, and until someone comes up with a way to send a bullet with enough sectional density out of a handgun barrel at ovet 2000 feet/sec without having to make the handgun stupid big and keeping the recoil at a far less than insane level, they never will. Period.

FWIW, and much respect to Mr. Smith, penetration always has to come before expansion, especially with handguns. The truth is that in a properly designed handgun bullet, expansion is tailored to acheive the desired penetration.

Telling me that you loaded SD ammo and "tested" it in gelatin but not for penetration is like telling me that you but a car and took it to the strip, but not for acceleration. Basically, it's the kind of thing that I'm sure will give me some form of cancer, if it hasn't already.

 

[deemus]

I loaded some SD loads for my 40 this past weekend. Has anyone ever loaded the Nosler 150g HP's? I don't really have any experience with them.

They were the only ones I could find when I bought them. Loaded them up pretty hot. Planning on testing on gel this weekend. Anyone know where I can buy some cherry Jello in bulk?

 

[rushthezeppelin]

I seriously doubt jello can be anywhere near a good substitute for properly calibrated ballistics gel...I've heard you can get a kit online that is reusable for a couple hundred bucks though.

 

[deemus]

I seriously doubt jello can be anywhere near a good substitute for properly calibrated ballistics gel...I've heard you can get a kit online that is reusable for a couple hundred bucks though.

You missed my smiley face, huh?

 

[ares338]

The prosecutor could just as easily say " why did you use those Buffalo Bore +P killer rounds on that poor misunderstood ghetto dweller"? That said I usually use factory loads. However, if I didn't have anything else but my own loads, I would not hesitate to carry them. Folks, if they want to get you they will pull out all of the stops no matter what you use!

 

[RACER X]

I bought them at Wal-Mart vs "so you made your bullets that were made to kill vs stop the threat, your own man killer bullets" so jury what do you think about that?

 

[Younggun]

I bought them at Wal-Mart vs "so you made your bullets that were made to kill vs stop the threat, your own man killer bullets" so jury what do you think about that?

You bought expensive bullets designed especially for killing?

 

[Younggun]

Just flipping the coin.

 

[Andy]

FWIW, and much respect to Mr. Smith, penetration always has to come before expansion, especially with handguns. The truth is that in a properly designed handgun bullet, expansion is tailored to acheive the desired penetration.

This.