Gunsmithing career

[peeps]

How does one enter the gunsmithing field? Do smiths take on fresh apprentices like some other industries? Or, would some experience/schooling be required to even apply. I understand some folks just grow up in the business, and I imagine those are some of the best. But, for those who wish to learn the trade (as an occupation) from scratch, what's the best way? Thanks!

 

[Acera]

This link might help you out.

Gunsmithing Schools - All Gunsmith Schools Reviewed

If you just want to improve your skills as a hobbyist, look at this site.
NRA Short-Term Gunsmithing Schools


How old are you?

Are you able to join the armed services and get preliminary training there? Plus the money for the trade school and/or College?

You might start a thread and see if any Army MOS 91F, Marine 2111/2112 vets are on here to tell you about it.

 

[wakal]

Like most jobs, without a friend/family relationship from which to sponge whilst learning, a prospective hire must be able to demonstrate some value added to the business before being hired.

Machine skills, (small) welding skills, woodworking...all good places to start. Some of the best shops in the industry were started by tool and die makers, in days of yore, with no particular background in firearms as such but that sort of skill set transfers over at head and shoulders above the hobbyist. There are some online classes, DVD courses, and in person gunsmithing classes that have the potential of building a solid foundation. Having some skills or other worth that adds value to the company in excess of the respective cost to that company is what gets people hired.

I have both a business background (yes, MBA may grow on trees but I did have to climb the damn tree) and a rather extensive history in more than a few aspects of the firearms industry and so may look at things a bit differently, but the latter is the bottom line of any successful (real) business.

Alex

 

[IXLR8]

It is accepted that it takes 10,000 hours to master a subject or skill. There is not any 2 week or 2 month school that will make you an expert gunsmith. However there are many niche markets. At the local gunshows there is a guy called the Glocksmith. He can really tune a Glock exceptionally well. If you could find a market perhaps tuning triggers or similar, you may be able to build a reputation for doing exceptional work on a very small market segment.
People are willing to pay good money for things they cannot do, or are scared to do.

 

[peeps]

Thanks all for the replies. To answer Acera, I'm in my early 30s and have already run the military course. Unfortunately, I made the wrong MOS choice and should have switched while I had the chance lol. I was in constant envy of the ole 2111s...even though I was a 2131 and had the biggest gun, I knew that small arms repair would have had better real world transferable skills. Young and dumb, ah well. And thus the current interest in gunsmithing.

Interesting point in other backgrounds/skills wakal... I don't have specific background in those areas, but they interest me. Exceptional customer service is about the only thing I can think of that I have as my edge.

IXLR8, I am aware of that rule, and it's a good one. The trick, I think, is going to be to find the best environment in my situation to foster those 10k hrs. Perhaps schoolin' is the best course as I know no one in my family/friend circles. Not sure!

 

[breakingcontact]

Experience > Education and don't go into debt for this.

It's tricky because guns need less gun smithing now and with the rise of the AR, tons of guys are doing their own work. I'm not sure what kind of work you are doing now, but working PT at a gun shop where there is a real smith could be invaluable.

Also think long term, don't turn up your nose at low pay up front if this is really what you want to do. Too often we let our pride trip us up. I'm about to take some side work with a friend and I didn't even ask what the pay was, I want the experience. I'll learn more working on this one project than if I were to take a formal class.

Another thing to consider, with all of the YouTube videos out there...buy a few cheap beat up guns and work on them yourself. You won't be out much and will learn a lot along the way and not have any ticked off customers yelling about your work!

 

[peeps]

That's some damn good points bc, I think working PT for a master gunsmith would be my ideal learning start. I too would prefer experience over pay - as long as my full-time job is putting meat on the table till I'm ready for the big leagues. YouTube is an idea, more so when I have the space. Current situation, a PT job would work better.

I suppose this is my original inquiry - how receptive are quality gunsmith shops willing to train noobs?? For some reason I have this image of crotchety old dudes in a basement tuning up arms solo. (Not that that's a bad thing lol)

 

[Moonpie]

Check out the various College course offerings. Colorado School of Trades used to be a good one.
Then you'll have to find work at one of the big gunsmith outfits like Brownell's. This will require relocation of course.
There will always be need for real gunsmiths. You're gonna starve for a while until you build up your name.
The Fudds always will want(and pay) for fancy Fudd guns.
Evil Black Rifles won't pay the bills as just about anybody with a wrench can work on them.
Custom wood, refinishing, and(in IMO) revolver and 1911 work are where the bucks are.
Actual re-making of parts to bring very old guns back on line is very time consuming and a LOT of people are cheap assholes and will not pay you for the time involved. They'll bring in a $40 dollar 100yr old .22 and want you to repair a broken stock wrist and re-make, say a firing pin, that takes you 2 hours of hand filing and fitting. Okay, that'll be $110 for repair. They screech and then won't pay. Losing game.

 

[breakingcontact]

That's some damn good points bc

Thanks, it's what I do.

Check out the various College course offerings. Colorado School of Trades used to be a good one.
Then you'll have to find work at one of the big gunsmith outfits like Brownell's. This will require relocation of course.
There will always be need for real gunsmiths. You're gonna starve for a while until you build up your name.
The Fudds always will want(and pay) for fancy Fudd guns.
Evil Black Rifles won't pay the bills as just about anybody with a wrench can work on them.
Custom wood, refinishing, and(in IMO) revolver and 1911 work are where the bucks are.
Actual re-making of parts to bring very old guns back on line is very time consuming and a LOT of people are cheap $#@!s and will not pay you for the time involved. They'll bring in a $40 dollar 100yr old .22 and want you to repair a broken stock wrist and re-make, say a firing pin, that takes you 2 hours of hand filing and fitting. Okay, that'll be $110 for repair. They screech and then won't pay. Losing game.

Moonpie brings up excellent points.

AR type and Glock type guns have both become commodities. I suppose there will still be work to be done on them, but it will be more like Jiffy Lube level than some mechanic with an accent who can work on a Bentley or a Honda.

I agree most people are cheap, so you don't want to be competing on price.

There is a class of very wealthy folks here in Texas that will pay for quality.

 

[jrbfishn]

Most cabinet shops or even places like Sherwin Williams and Kelly Moore paints can help you learn the woodwork. Some craft stores can help you learn wood turning fairly cheap and easy. The woodwork part ain't too hard. If you are going to take classes, take some in welding, metal fabrication and machineing. You can do that at almost any small college. After that it is mostly learning the different guns and adapting those things to fit each job. Believe it or not, a machine drafting class will be a really big help in seeing how parts can fit together.

from an idgit coffeeholic

 

[peeps]

Right-o. Thanks jrb, I'll take that in mind. Learning to build cabinets might be fun - and handy for my own home rehab

 

[jrbfishn]

Don't have to learn to build cabinets. Basic wood work is the same whether it is a stock, grips, shadow box or cabinet. Basic finishing is the same. Carving and turning is the same for a chair leg or a rifle stock. Basic metal fabrication and shaping is the same for a motorcycle part as a gun part. Parts only go together so many ways regardless if it goes varoom or bang.
Just apply the techniques of one to the other.
from an idgit coffeeholic

 

[rp-]

I spoke with my ffl in San Diego about this years back. He said it takes practice. He said start by going home and taking apart all of your guns and putting them back together...

I started small with a trigger job on a makarov. It turned out good and easier than I expected. Most of the work is understanding the mechanisms and disassembly and reassembly. YouTube has been a big help for me personally. If I get myself stuck or if I want a 'proof of concept' before I take on a project I will check to see if I can find a video or explanation of the firearm. I started restoring jap rifles from barrelled receivers which was quite enjoyable.

I'm no master by any stretch and don't claim to be great, but I do OK. My 2 cents, buy a beater mauser/nagant and strip it, reblue it, do a trigger job, reassemble. Then maybe pickup a simple pistol like a makarov or a pa-63 (slightly harder) and doing the same. Get comfortable doing the work and find out how to use the tools. All the while you can try to get a foot in the door elsewhere. At least this way you have some practice, ya know.

 

[RetArmySgt]

I have always messed around with guns growing up, then did some armory work in the Army. After getting out I took the courses from Penn Foster (mainly for the paper and the business side of the house) and bought about 100 broken guns from different places to practice on. The work isnt hard it just takes practice and patience. Once you are comfortable with doing the work you can then find a shop that has a smith and demonstrate a knowledge of the work and see if he will take you on as an apprentice or you can find a small shop that doesnt have a smith and see if they are in need of one. If you take the second option only take in work that you are pretty sure you can accomplish on your own. Again YouTube is your friend some day and so is a schematics books; but YouTube can screw you too. Watch the video and make sure that its right and something you can do before you follow the video (if that makes sense).

 

[rp-]

+1000

I think Ret said it better than me...

I should clarify, when I watch videos it is not to learn how to do something. I will watch a video for tips on how to do something. Specifically, before ripping into something, watch a breakdown video to see if you might need any special tools. You can usually find a video where someone will tell you exactly what size punches and such to use...

Numrich is a great source of schematics. They don't have everything though and I once had to scroll through about 100 before I found one that was close enough to a shotgun I restored.

I say get your feet wet. Century arms usually has gunsmith special guns for sale for pretty cheap (less than $50 sometimes). Talk to friends or mosey around the gun show. Ask people at the range. Everyone has a beater gun you can offer to work on for free. What's the worst you can do? Break it more??

 

[peeps]

Thanks all for the comments. I didn't even think about buying beater guns!

 

[rp-]

Gotta start somewhere. Lucky for me most of my first guns were beaters already!

 

[Stony]

I spent some years in the gun business and we had a gunsmithing dept. as well as retail sales. If there is one thing I would have to stress, it's machine work. Learning about lathe and mill work can be a big boon to your career. I would recommend a good college such as Trinidad Colorado, or Lassen College in California. They are well respected schools that can teach you the basic skills to get you into the business.

 

[TexMex247]

Don't want to be the one to burst your bubble but I'll offer my 2 cents anyways. I have almost 20 years experience in auto and motorcycle repair. I have enough tools to assemble or modify just about anything you can imagine. During this time, I have also worked in an exhaust shop doing plenty of mig/tig welding and basic fabrication. I took metal trades in high school and have no problem around a drill press,lathe or milling machine(manual types).
All of this considered I have had zero luck getting into the gunsmithing industry. Just as others stated, it's a great idea to buy and fix or modify guns of several varieties. I have done this with my own collection and would consider myself an expert with ruger 10/22s and glock pistols. Neither of these specialties command much respect. I have also done trigger work, spring replacement, barrel replacement/fitting and many other things to 1911s and just about every other gun i have owned. In spite of it all, including local demand, very few people are hiring "outside of the family". You're almost better off aquiring specialized equipment(stoning fixtures, sight tools,etc) and opening your own business after getting some credentials under your belt. I appreciate the delicate nature of gun smithing in relation to legal liabilities but the art of gunsmithing is slowly dying thanks to the internet and crotchety old timers who won't make the time to train or trust others. Best of luck, keep us updated as you work toward your goal.