dumb customer and dumber businesses

[Wolfwood]

 

[ADRidge]

Call it childish if you must, but I've got a barreled .458 WM action that is in need of some TLC and a nice custom wood stock. A local gunsmith with a half-ass website in Lewisville or Denton would stand to take quite a few dollars from me. The lack of website, to me, screams "I do this one day a week, when I feel like it."

It would be nice to shop prices a bit on the internet and not have to fuss with shipping my rifle off to some dude in another state. I'd really love to support my local smiths, but they don't make it easy.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Oh, I see - so it's easier to ship it out of state than to swing by a local smith? Or is it that you want to price shop first? In my experience, a good smith is worth whatever they charge. Then again, mine do little "favors" for me for free from time to time - maybe it's because I don't haggle/hassle 'em, and appreciate them for the artisan's they are. I prefer a GOOD smith over a cheap one....but that's just me. Life has taught me you can have price, quality and speed - but you only get two of the three, and the more you get of one, the less you get of either of the other two. Give me quality any day when it comes to a gun!

 

[Renegade]

How the F would I expect them to do something as complicated as a web-page. In fact - if you can't handle an Fing web-page I'm not sure I want your grubby paws on my AR.

The best smiths do not have web pages. They are word of mouth only.

And don't bad mouth them for not having a web page since you, an IT consultant , do not even know how to google "replace ar flash hider"

 

[Wolfwood]

The best smiths do not have web pages. They are word of mouth only.

And don't bad mouth them for not having a web page since you, an IT consultant , do not even know how to google "replace ar flash hider"

Zing!

 

[tweek]

Actually I did. Watched several videos. The thing that stopped me from just doing it right then and there was that I don't have a vice or the adapter that would hold the gun in place. Hind sight being what it is - It's a bloody assault rifle! Laying it on the ground and holding it there with my boot while twisting off the flash hider aint going to phase it.

As for price shopping - If I'm buying mass manufactured crap: hell yeah. The M&P15 while being a nice piece of hardware is not handcrafted by monks living deep in the caves of some far off place - It's stamped out on an assembly line that is controlled by a JIT inventory system making sure there are exactly enough made to meet demand but no more.

I don't price shop services. You going to price shop your cardiac surgeon? However, when I'm shopping and you're not there....I keep on shopping. If you are there and you say - "sure I can do that for you but I won't have it back to you until Wednesday" I'll either say 'cool', keep shopping and get the same answer from everybody else.

But it does have me laughing that some of you are getting so twisted by such basic business stuff. Know why WalMart absolutely murdered the neighborhood grocery and pharamcy? They're open when people can go shopping. Most people don't get off work until after 5pm. If you're closing your door when they're leaving their job how exactly do you expect them to do business with you? Oh, I forgot you take orders over the internet....no? So I'm supposed to take off time from my job in order to not upset you? Cool. Let me know how that works out in the long run. Lot of old town shop keepers don't have shops to keep....

And if I really have pissed any of the smiths off that badly - should I give you call asking about something I need feel free to tell me to piss up a rope. I'm sure there will be a book on Amazon or a youtube video that will explain it to me.

 

[tweek]

Actually it just occured to me: you guys are sitting here on a bloody internet forum bitching about setting up web-pages being too damn complicated. WTF?

Places like this are exactly the places where you subtly advertise your wares, talk with potential customers and start business transactions. It's no different than the coffee houses way back when. Only difference is that your reach is global now.

It's your party, I'm just passing through

 

[Wolfwood]

oh man. this is hilarious.

 

[matefrio]

Most "Get it done and get it done right the first time" folks I know are anti social at some level.

The rare bird that is social and good at what they do tends to have a bunch of business but get distracted by keeping up web sights, advertising etc. that they move away from what they are good at.

 

[Renegade]

Places like this are exactly the places where you subtly advertise your wares, talk with potential customers and start business transactions. It's no different than the coffee houses way back when. Only difference is that your reach is global now.

It is illegal for a gunsmith to accept work from outside the US, so global reach is not of much value.

Most gunsmiths I know that are good are already backed up several months, so they do not need more customers. You do not seem to grasp that.

 

[tweek]

It is illegal for a gunsmith to accept work from outside the US, so global reach is not of much value.

Most gunsmiths I know that are good are already backed up several months, so they do not need more customers. You do not seem to grasp that.

Was not aware of the global bit but ok.

As for not needing more customers - maybe you're right I'm not grasping the idea. I work with startups and companies that want to grow and be competitive. To me this attitude is like unionized labor that has killed our automotive industry. Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing. Perhaps what is being called a business here is what I consider a hobby business.

Anyway - I've been educated now. Gunsmiths are wonderful hardworking wise souls and I was wrong to have impugned their work ethic and business sense.

 

[Wolfwood]

i like to do my own work on my guns, and yes, i have FUBARed one or two along the way, no biggie, becuas ei learned form it. but when i do go to a 'smith, i stop by and talk to him about what i need in person. no need to price shop unless i need a part, or a whole new gun. 9 time sout of ten, i know what needs to be done, but i jsut dont have the tools to do it. if you think about it for a second, you can guestimate about what it would cost to do a job.

say i want new trigger group, i go and find a good deal on a quality product, and purchase it. if i dont have the tools i need, like some kindof weird exotic springloaded wrenchy type widget or im nervous about screwing it all up, i'll take it to the 'smith and pay him to put it in. since i've go the part, and know how it works, it shouldnt be hard to figure if it is a $50 job or a $150 job.

i think the gunsmith is like a barber most times.
there is one guy, proprieter owner and sole employee who does the service, pays the rent, takes the money and sweeps the floor.
if you call my barber and ask for an appointment, he'd probably laugh at ya and tell you the business hours.
if that aint your style you go to a salon. or one of those salons in disguise like sports clips for all you latent homosexuals (lol a joke dont blow a gasket TC & or TI)

also another similarity is when you get comfy with a barber or a smith you usually stick with them.

incidently my barber is the same guy who gave me my first haircut as a kid.
21 years later he still gets my money.

and both my barber and my smith get nice tips for jobs well done.

---------

that isnt to say there aren't lousy socalled gunsmiths out there who wonder why they have to pawn their lathe every month to pay their mortgage and yet wont answer their phone, turn their sign on or even flip it to open. but these guys generally do poor work, over charge for what they do, etc.

another thing is shops with lots of employees. i personally dont want anyone's grubby mits on my weapons that doesnt have calloused hands a moustache and a hairline receeding by atleast 3 inches.
the one time i went to a shop with some PFY at the counter with a complaint about a rifle shooting way low, (i was looking for some shims to fix it) he says "oh you dont need shims this is adjustable" grabs a screwdriver and cranks the shit out of the windage (not even the right knob) all you year head clickclicklciclick-POP

dead scope. right there.

so i'll take my snails pace service, when i need it. otherwise good job DIYing. that is the way to go. i donty know if you are a prepper type but when SHTF gunsmiths are goign to be a liiitle more expensive relativley speaking. and it is a good skill to have.

either for yourself or for cans of beans (aka profit)

 

[ADRidge]

Oh, I see - so it's easier to ship it out of state than to swing by a local smith? Or is it that you want to price shop first? In my experience, a good smith is worth whatever they charge. Then again, mine do little "favors" for me for free from time to time - maybe it's because I don't haggle/hassle 'em, and appreciate them for the artisan's they are. I prefer a GOOD smith over a cheap one....but that's just me. Life has taught me you can have price, quality and speed - but you only get two of the three, and the more you get of one, the less you get of either of the other two. Give me quality any day when it comes to a gun!

You're absolutely right about getting what you pay for. I guess I came off the wrong way in that post. Obviously it's easier to swing by a local 'smith, but with my schedule right now, swinging by a doctor for a much-needed appointment is hard enough, much less a 'smith who, while they may be EXCELLENT, might not be there during regular business hours all the time.

The project I've got in mind actually would require a pretty damn good 'smith. It would also, due to my financial situation, a smith that can give me a solid quote beforehand and work small bits at a time. I'm really busy and kinda poor at the moment, basically.

I guess, just due to the age we live in, I'm used to shopping around for prices. Not necessarily to find the cheapest, but to get an approximation of what I'll end up spending.

Anyway, if I came off like a prick, it's probably about half as prickish as I meant to be.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I guess, just due to the age we live in, I'm used to shopping around for prices. Not necessarily to find the cheapest, but to get an approximation of what I'll end up spending.

Anyway, if I came off like a prick, it's probably about half as prickish as I meant to be.

That's what you want to make clear when you talk w/a smith - that you're simply tryin' to get an idea as to what you're going to be spending before "pullin' the trigger". Also....I'd highly suggest that you save up as much as you can to get as much done per "trip" as possible. I've had customers before that wanted me to basically fix one or two things at a time, rather than fix 4-6 things all at once. They end up paying more in the end, since they incur additional service calls, plus I often have to take the same things apart to get at the repair point(s) - and I end up tying up 2-3 calls on a single repair.

 

[tweek]

It does occur to me that in jumping off on this fun little discussion that I might have started off asking a few questions. I stand by my POV in regard to business, but I'm not that familar with what a gun smith does. swapping out a flash hider isnt really something that calls for a gun smith. So.....what does call for a gun smith? Given my experience - I was going to ask a gun smith to swap my flash hider - would changing out my trigger be something I would want a gun smith to do or is that something that I could do myself?

what on AR type rifles calls for a gun smith? If I get an 18" DPMS Panther and want to have it tuned up to be really accurate (sub-MOA?) is that something a gun smith could do with this type of rifle or would it be a waste of time and money?

 

[TexasRedneck]

Tweek, much depends on just what your own mechanical abilities are, and your acceptable level of risk. Personally, I've built about a dozen AR's - they're really not that complex for a basic gun. There's just not that much to 'em. Usually the trick is to havin' someone with you on the first one. Once assembled, then tweakin' things such as trigger, etc. may be a job for a smith. Personally, I'm loath to do much to a trigger simply because if you do it wrong, it can be bad news - but I've been known to stone 'em a bit here and there.
Now, what I will NOT work on is either my 1900's-era Sauer and Sohns side-by-side shotgun, or my 1900's-ear Drilling. Both are precise instruments, and frankly I shudder to think of screwin' one of 'em up!

 

[tweek]

My parents live in the Middle East right now and dad has been shipping back pieces of ancient rifles that Bedouins have been dragging around the desert for the past century. Things like old British Enfields, French crap and some other stuff. It's all sand blasted and worn, but it all works and is servicable when it is reassembled. Should be some fun stuff to work on. Not sure why he is collecting it though. Then again he has a stack of old radios too.

Not sure how exactly that relates, but I suspect it is all stuff a gun smith would either wet himself to get his hands on or run away screaming at the first sight.

 

[Renegade]

My parents live in the Middle East right now and dad has been shipping back pieces of ancient rifles that Bedouins have been dragging around the desert for the past century. Things like old British Enfields, French crap and some other stuff. It's all sand blasted and worn, but it all works and is servicable when it is reassembled.

Does he know this is illegal, without a lot of paperwork from State, BATFE? Hopefully he is not shipping them to you.

 

[Wolfwood]

heheh sounds liek a good time to start practicing some clandestine shipping practices.

any vacant houses arund?

 

[tweek]

They don't come to me....actually everything I just posted is a complete fabrication and figment of my imagination. Please disregard. I was on really strong illegal narcotics when I wrote that. Yeah, thats the ticket. Narcotics.