DSArms FAL Out-of-Battery Detonation!! Not Fun!

[TooManyChoices!?]

Well, decided to take my FAL and Saiga 12 out to the range today. I decided to change my SHTF carbine to the FAL, from the AR-15, so the FAL picked up the Eotech, and Chinese knock-off(don't judge me lol) 4x magnifier. Settled down at 25 yards to sight in the Eotech. Took about 10rnds to sight in. Everything is all good. So a friend and I move over to play with the Saiga, and stretch the legs on the .308 a little more to 100yds. He finishes a mag at 100yds, and it's still all good. So I settle in behind the rifle and fire off 4 out of the 6rnds in the mag with my friend spotting for me, when on round #5, it happens! Boom! Clank! Sproing!! I am sprayed in the face by powder, and gas!! My friend looks over and we are like "what just happend!". The magazine's floor plate is blown out, the magazine body is bulged, and the last round is inside the spring below the follower. After realizing what happend, I look at the ejection port, and the extractor is gripping the case partially in the chamber and the entire unsupported wall of the case was blown out just above the rim! I extracted the round via charging handle, disassembled the rifle to check the barrel and internals. There was no visible damage to the upper receiver at all! I reassembled her and she went back to firing like nothing ever happend! She ate another 50 rnds or so without a hiccup. My friend was hessitant to fire the rifle again, but after I explained what happened, he was back outshooting me with my own rifle again, lol. These were reloads purchased at a gunshow, but the rifle was filthy and that's what I think bound up the round, causing the out-of-battery detonation. The FAL is one helluva rifle, to take that and keep on ticking! Just a reminder to be careful and take care of your firearms.

 

[MadMo44Mag]

Glad all came out ok!

 

[M. Sage]

I'd have it inspected by a gunsmith. No way would I just start shooting a rifle that did that to me. Not without knowing that there was no damage or without finding out what caused the failure in the first place.

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

I'd have it inspected by a gunsmith. No way would I just start shooting a rifle that did that to me. Not without knowing that there was no damage or without finding out what caused the failure in the first place.

I hope I don't sound arrogant when I type this, but I could tell what happend immediately upon closer inspection. The round simply fired 1/4"-1/2" out of battery. I don't know how well you know the FAL, but if you remove the bolt carrier, flip it upside down (so the extractor is on your left, and the rat tail is towards you), you'll see a notch in the bolt necessary for the fixed ejector to clear the bolt as it rides in the carrier. This notch exactly lines up with the ruptured rim of the case. When out of battery, this notch of missing metal was unsupported, and the case simply gave way, shooting all the pressure into the weakest point, the magazine directly below.

After looking again, my previous statment of "not a scratch", might be wrong however. The metal where the case ruptured might have a small scratch; it's hard to tell because it also resembles wear, and is on both sides. I'll try and post some pics, and you can be the judge as to if I'm correct that no parts (other than the magazine and case) took damage.

MadMo44Mag- thanx for the concern, and I'm glad it wasn't worse also. If he mag had been aluminum, I have no doubt it would have given into the pressure and ripped/split in half down the side! But that's speculation!

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

Now why it fired out of battery is still up for debate. Once taken apart; the bore was clear, the chamber was not overly dirty, the case was clean(no grime to jam it up), so I don't know? She was pretty dry at the time, and maybe a piece of grit just found the right spot on the rail, who knows? But once it was clear no damage was done, why not get back to shooting? Of course I was checking every shot to make sure full lock-up was achieved. Once bitten, twice shy!

Too Many Choices!?

 

[Texasjack]

I have to agree with M.Sage - I would have it checked out by a competent gunsmith.

Of course, I'd also be a little suspicious of gun show reloads...

 

[Outbreak]

Of course, I'd also be a little suspicious of gun show reloads...

That.

 

[Texas1911]

Describe the case better ... I'm leaning on the side of an ammunition failure (overcharge, sizing, etc.).

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

If there really is interest, I'll post up the pics in the morning. Hopefully the old adage," a picture is worth a thousand words", holds true, and y'all can see why I was okay with cautiously returnig to firing.

I'm definitely going to save my pennies for a case of good ammo after this. No more reloads, unless I make'em myself(no reloading set yet though). The FAL bolt and carrier are built like a tank, and fairly well reinforced in the areas where the pressure was taken, but I'll look into getting her a check-up also. I'm leaning towards bad reload too. I just couldn't pass up the 500rnds for 250 back when the ammo craze first jumped. I'll think twice that's for sure.

Oh, and the Saiga is awesome! But she doesn't like 2 3/4" shells. She prefers the 3" fellas. Who says size doesn't matter to women lol. Thnx guys.

Too Many Choices!?

 

[M. Sage]

Now why it fired out of battery is still up for debate. Once taken apart; the bore was clear, the chamber was not overly dirty, the case was clean(no grime to jam it up), so I don't know? She was pretty dry at the time, and maybe a piece of grit just found the right spot on the rail, who knows? But once it was clear no damage was done, why not get back to shooting? Of course I was checking every shot to make sure full lock-up was achieved. Once bitten, twice shy!

Too Many Choices!?

That's actually what I meant by "why".

 

[Eli]

Be glad it was a (forged and fully heat treated) DSA and not a lesser receiver, Imbels and others have been known to split like banana peels in the same scenario.

Eli

 

[Texas1911]

If there really is interest, I'll post up the pics in the morning.

I think it's a serious matter worth looking into.

I've seen plenty of ammo failures and out-of-battery firings to know what to look for, it's obvious in a heartbeat.

Hell, today I spied a 7.7 Jap that had been fired with obvious headspace issues, and I notified the owner.

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

Test...

Well I some how broke my keyboard trying to post pics. So once I fix it(or get a new one) the pics will follow.

 

[sharky47]

I love reloading - but I DO NOT buy "gunshow reloads". Bad juju.

Now, in a real "land of the free" - auto sears would not be cause to put you in a cage and out-of-battery detonations would be almost unheard of......

 

[TexasFats]

For some reason, I am tempted to think "high primer" when I read the OP. A bolt slamming into a high primer (one that is not seated 0.003" to 0.005" below the case head) can easily cause a slam fire. I have read in the Sierra loading manual that the M1 rifle can do exactly what your rifle did. If you have any more of those gunshow reloads, you might look at them closely to see if the primers are seated correctly. If you find another high primer in the batch, then there is where my money would be as a cause. One more reason to avoid gunshow reloads like Bubonic Plague.

 

[M. Sage]

For some reason, I am tempted to think "high primer" when I read the OP. A bolt slamming into a high primer (one that is not seated 0.003" to 0.005" below the case head) can easily cause a slam fire. I have read in the Sierra loading manual that the M1 rifle can do exactly what your rifle did. If you have any more of those gunshow reloads, you might look at them closely to see if the primers are seated correctly. If you find another high primer in the batch, then there is where my money would be as a cause. One more reason to avoid gunshow reloads like Bubonic Plague.

Oh, crap. I missed that he'd been using gunshow reloads. Yeah, that could be the problem.

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

I'm out of town til Saturday(on my phone now), but got the keyboard issue worked out. So I'll post the pictures up Saturday night, or Sunday morning depending on when I get back in.

And I'm extremely glad for the DSArms forged upper. A lesser gun might have blown up in my face, rather than find the magazine as the point of least resistance.

 

[TexMex247]

Out of battery det.

I would just go back to the AR as your go-to gun. Early in my reloading process, I had some case necks separate and stick in the chamber. The next round would feed but not fire by design of the BCG. I am surprised that there is a gun out there that is capable of striking the primer without the bolt fully seated. Most will produce a light or no primer strike at all. As far as a high primer slam firing, I think the terms say it all. The bolt has to "slam" or basically be fully(or very close to)seated. Usually that results in "doubling" not out of battery ignition. As far as your Saiga, a friend of mine had to buy and adjustable gas block so that his would cycle 2 3/4 shells reliably. Worth the investment if you ask me. If you know what you're looking at, then don't bother with a gunsmith. They'll just tell you your gun is dirty and never use reloaded ammo.

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

Well here are the pics...

 

[TooManyChoices!?]

Sorry the pics are soooo big!! I don't know how to re-size them.

Pic 1. Is of the case head. The bad pic only looks like a hole, but it is actually torn 2/3 of the way around.
Pic 2. Shows the bolt with cartridge held by the extractor. You can see where the "slot" I mentioned earlier lines up with the hole in the brass.
Pic 3. Shows the magazine as viewed from below. The portion that enters the magazine well was not blown out that wide, and the magazine released as a normal mag would. No extra force was needed to remove it.
Pic 4. Shows the parts in the firearm the way they were as it happened, but slightly further out of battery. I could not get the case to stay gripped by the extractor as i inserted the bolt, carrier, and blown case back into the rifle(the ejector would knock it off) to show the parts completely in the same orientation, but pic 4. does show how the hole blown in the case matches up to the slot for the ejector, and would have been the only unsupported portion of the brass...