Confiscation has begun

[easy rider]

The point I was making, there was no U.S. when the British were wanting to confiscate guns and it was 1775, not 1776. There was British law, not U.S. law and I was making light of that fact.

 

[avvidclif]

Thank you. I was going to say the same thing. There was only British Law as there was no US.

 

[TheDan]

The hearing is a prove-you're-innocent deal.

It's not widespread confiscation. It's not even necessarily a bad idea. However, the concept is rife with potential for abuse and I have every confidence that it will be abused widely in non-free states.

Right, so it's not a good idea to grant this power so long as activist judges and DAs inhabit the courtrooms.

how will you get this message to those who are on the opposite end of the spektrum. Those who celebrate a life devoid of moral responsibility?

End government policies that subsidize poor choices.

Personally (even if it takes passing a one time special law), I’d like to glean an insight into how many of (and to what extent) these killers were on SSRI drugs.

I do think these things are over prescribed and doctors aren't monitoring the effects on their patients closely enough, but I think you'll find the common denominator in all these mass killings is broken homes.

The vast majority of people on some type of psychotropic medication aren't violent. I'd really hate to see someone have their property confiscated and be legally barred from using the best tool available for self defense just because they got a Zoloft prescription.

Following the mental health narrative all the way down makes me uneasy. The definitions and perceptions of "mental health" are very fluid. The Soviets used to believe that you were mentally ill if you didn't think Communism was good for you.

 

[Younggun]

.


End government policies that subsidize poor choices.

Totally agree, but accomplishing that hinges on getting the previous message out.

We live in a Constitutional Republic with a representative government. A substantial portion of the population that is unwilling to hear the message will also be unwilling to vote for representatives that will remove the road blocks to getting that message out.

You have to have the chicken to get the egg, and you need the egg to get the chicken. Quite the conundrum.

 

[benenglish]

Hey, make no mistake. I feel the same way. But, viewed broadly, any prior restraint action is the same.

• If someone is trying to involuntarily commit you for psychiatric reasons, you're going to have to prove you're innoc...er...sane.
  
• When my sister renewed her drivers license immediately after her first heart attack, she answered the health questions truthfully. Her license was non-renewed and she was informed she could never drive again. A court date was set for her to dispute this finding and she had to go. Now, just the fact that she could walk in under how own power, capably articulate her argument that her disability did not prevent safe driving, and successfully interact with the judge were all that were needed. The judge said something about "You walked in here under your own power and you clearly understand everything that's going on." Then he ruled against the state. She still had to go to court to prove her innocence/ability.
• IRS audits are basically "prove you're innocent" but we still have to fund the government somehow.
  
• And etc., etc., etc.

We accept some fuzziness in the way principles are administered because without a little flexibility, structures both physical and societal don't bend but, instead, break.

Right, so it's not a good idea to grant this power so long as activist judges and DAs inhabit the courtrooms.

My heart agrees.

The cold-hearted pragmatist in me sees a different course. I think that proper safeguards for these ERPOs will only become the norm after someone has their guns taken away by activist, anti-2A judges and police and that person is subsequently horribly murdered because they didn't have their guns. It'll take a perfect case of paranoia being the reason for guns being taken away and then that paranoia being proved justified for it to happen but, if we keeping getting poorly written statutes, such a case will eventually crop up.

I hate to say it but there will probably need to be a "Luby's-shooting-not-stopped-because-I-didn't-have-my-gun" type of event in every state with such laws for the proper safeguards to become law everywhere.

Freedom sometimes requires blood to flourish.

I really don't mean to be harsh about it but I think that's the practical reality.

 

[TheDan]

Freedom sometimes requires blood to flourish.

I really don't mean to be harsh about it but I think that's the practical reality.

That is certainly true in a historical context, but I hope we can do better in the future. Getting people to discuss things with reason and evidence instead their feels is key to that. Unfortunately language arts isn't really a strong suit of mine, so I can't be a shining example myself, but I still make an effort.

 

[oldag]

The cold-hearted pragmatist in me sees a different course. I think that proper safeguards for these ERPOs will only become the norm after someone has their guns taken away by activist, anti-2A judges and police and that person is subsequently horribly murdered because they didn't have their guns.

I don't think the liberals will care one whit. They will not change based on one, or even a thousand, of these type incidents.

 

[easy rider]

Sad, but true.

 

[benenglish]

I don't think the liberals will care one whit. They will not change based on one, or even a thousand, of these type incidents.

It's depressing how often cynicism proves out in the end. I hope you're wrong. I fear you're right but I still hope you're wrong.

 

[Younggun]

If were to simply read through different posts on this forum with no preconceived idea or background I feel like I would come to the conclusion, based on the attitude of many posts, that there is absolutely no hope and every fight is a lost cause.

It seems more and more I find myself in a no mans land between the idea that there is nothing that can be done or that the answer is something far more extreme than what I believe can be done without moving far outside the bounds of what I believe to be moral (or the limits of what I believe a society can do without becoming the very thing that society wishes to avoid).

Troubling times indeed.

 

[BRD@66]

...... They will not change based on one, or even a thousand, of these type incidents.

me too.

 

[benenglish]

It seems more and more I find myself in a no mans land between the idea that there is nothing that can be done or that the answer is something far more extreme than what I believe can be done without moving far outside the bounds of what I believe to be moral (or the limits of what I believe a society can do without becoming the very thing that society wishes to avoid).

This is the genesis of the revolutionary. One is born when that boundary line is crossed.

What follows is where tragedy can and usually does happen. The revolutionary, per se, is concerned with overthrowing the present with no regard to the future. His results are almost always co-opted by dark forces that seek power for its own sake and are no better than what came before. It's regard for the future that keeps us from crossing that line yet it also frustrates radical change.

Rare is the principled revolutionary who builds for the future rather than simply destroying the past. A few of them got together and founded this nation; I haven't seen a nation-building collective of them since.

You're thoughtful. You know you want to build a better future. Acting with that motivation will take you (frustratingly slowly) in the right direction. The cumulative results will be revolutionary. It just takes time to see it.

Keep the faith. You're a torch-bearer to a better future.

 

[DwnRange]

So, to that end, perhaps you could point me to your authoritative source(s)?

done.., check your messages

ps - as to those who intimated I can't take a joke, perhaps ya should re-read my posts as I was the one that made the joke that got missed here, it sail'd right past most of ya..., (but then I've always been a proponent of the premise that cell-phones make one inane)

 

[TheDan]

If were to simply read through different posts on this forum with no preconceived idea or background I feel like I would come to the conclusion, based on the attitude of many posts, that there is absolutely no hope and every fight is a lost cause.

It seems more and more I find myself in a no mans land between the idea that there is nothing that can be done or that the answer is something far more extreme than what I believe can be done without moving far outside the bounds of what I believe to be moral (or the limits of what I believe a society can do without becoming the very thing that society wishes to avoid).

Troubling times indeed.

Stop being a negative nancy. You don't have to become the ethical villain... Live your life by your principals and put yourself out there as an example. When the collectivists come for you, and they will no matter what, fight back by mitigating their damage and continuing to put yourself out there as an example of your principals.

We're at a point in history where ideas can be circulated at an unprecedented speed and breadth. Not unlike when printing presses starting popping up all over the place. Just like then, the elites are trying to regain control over the dissemination of information, but at least for now they cannot.

What we're seeing now is that when the collectivists target someone, it does initially ruin their life, but the more principled their target is and the more they've put themselves out there, the more people rally to them.

We live in interesting times.

 

[Younggun]

Stop being a negative nancy. You don't have to become the ethical villain... Live your life by your principals and put yourself out there as an example. When the collectivists come for you, and they will no matter what, fight back by mitigating their damage and continuing to put yourself out there as an example of your principals.

We're at a point in history where ideas can be circulated at an unprecedented speed and breadth. Not unlike when printing presses starting popping up all over the place. Just like then, the elites are trying to regain control over the dissemination of information, but at least for now they cannot.

What we're seeing now is that when the collectivists target someone, it does initially ruin their life, but the more principled their target is and the more they've put themselves out there, the more people rally to them.

We live in interesting times.

I don't believe at all that I have to become an ethical villain, or that there is a lost cause. Thats why I prefaced the comment the way I did mentioning "no preconceived notions or background".

Although I'm pretty negative in general, I've got certain rules that I decided at some point were extremely improtant and must be maintained and pssed on. True, I believe this leaves me in a sparcely populated ideological valley. That doesn't mean I view it as defeat.


Guess I should have been more clear.

 

[easy rider]

My premise is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Besides letting those that have the power to make changes know how I feel, there is little I can do but sit back and wait.

 

[easy rider]

My premise is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Besides letting those that have the power to make changes know how I feel, there is little I can do but sit back and wait.

 

[BRD@66]

You can say that again.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

A search in an engine I’ve never heard of.

Yep, I’m good

I use DuckDuckGo for my search engine. Do the research on them and you will also if you value your privacy. Better than google who sells everything on you.

 

[rman]

I'm so glad I am still not living in Washington. I will always miss the geography of it, but the politics have become Californicated.

but bikini baristas. i have never consumed so much coffee in my life than i did the week I was in Seattle.

Sent from my SIG Sauer