Concealed Carry at Church
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Amen to that!! :-)
The phrase "God, guns, and guts made America free, let's fight to keep all three," comes to mind for some reason.
Our local Salvation Army has an improper attempt at a 30.06 sign. I emphasize attempt, because it is pretty badly executed. The sign tries to make the whole facility including grounds and sidewalks gun free. I have good reason to go there, so I ignore this sign that doesn't apply to me and carry there as it is my right to do so.
Our local Salvation Army has an improper attempt at a 30.06 sign. I emphasize attempt, because it is pretty badly executed. The sign tries to make the whole facility including grounds and sidewalks gun free. I have good reason to go there, so I ignore this sign that doesn't apply to me and carry there as it is my right to do so.
Can someone send a link of the Penal Code that allows someone to carry in church? Here is the link to the 46.035 (PENAL CODE CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS) and I do not see anywhere that says there has to be a 30.06 sign posted in order to be effective. I have had mixed results when searching this topic, some say you can and others say you cant. And judging by the states website I do not believe you can legally carry in a place of worship.
It still amazes me how many people still think that hospitals and churches are prohibited for CHL holders. As stated above as long as they have not posted the "correct" 30.06 sign you can carry all day long. Most churches have several members who carry all the time. I only know of one church in my town that has all entrances posted with a proper sign (if you consider glass as being one of the contrasting colors......Is clear a color..haha)
Once again I am looking for visible proof because according to the states website it shows it being unlawful to carry into a place of worship. "Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9." I don't see any amendment anywhere in there.
You didn't read down far enough ...
"(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."
(b)(6) is churches.
txinvestigator
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Read pdf page 38 and 39 sec 46.035 of the 2011-2012 CHL handbook. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf At the end of sec 46.035 there are addendums: "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."
Or this, page 39 of the 2011-2012 DPS CHL booklet from PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
What you are looking for is at the end:
TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS 39
facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the
public that is located in a county with a population of more than one
million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with
access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than
120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the
premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private
driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or
other parking area.
(2) “License holder” means a person licensed to carry a handgun
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) “Premises” means a building or a p ortion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A
misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1)
or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor,
at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun
under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the
use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
[double amendment to same provision]
(h-1) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 1889.] It is a defense to
prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the
commission of the offense, was:
(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201,
Government Code; or
(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in
escorting the officer.
(h-1) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 2300.] It is a defense to
prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the
time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201,
Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district
attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant
county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment
performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission.
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
HOLDER.
What you are looking for is at the end:
TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS 39
facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the
public that is located in a county with a population of more than one
million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with
access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than
120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the
premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private
driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or
other parking area.
(2) “License holder” means a person licensed to carry a handgun
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) “Premises” means a building or a p ortion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A
misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1)
or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor,
at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun
under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the
use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
[double amendment to same provision]
(h-1) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 1889.] It is a defense to
prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the
commission of the offense, was:
(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201,
Government Code; or
(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in
escorting the officer.
(h-1) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 2300.] It is a defense to
prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the
time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201,
Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district
attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant
county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment
performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission.
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
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This forum is an easier place to find information than the TXDPS site (although now I'll look at DPS just to be sure!) I've been compelled to attend a wedding this evening, and if that's not bad enough, the reception is at a downtown restaurant. Of all the places I have to go at night, downtown Houston is pretty close to the last place I wish to be unarmed. Downtown at night, I've hesitant about even have the gun in the holster!
Anyway, I'm not leaving a gun in my car at the church. I just don't leave guns in cars. So I looked here first for info, thinking I might have to disassemble the gun and put it in a lockbox to carry it in. Now, I'll not worry. I've not been to this church, but they say nothing about guns on their website (which is chock full of policies and procedures!). If there is a 30.06 sign at the door, I guess I'll just have to wait outside...can't be worse than being inside.
Thanks, guys, for the info.
Edit: Reference to the actual code at dps:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf
Addendum: It occurs to me that the referenced subsections (b)4, 5, and 6 are pointless given subsection (i), which essentially says those places are the same as any other establishment. I mean, they might was well have had a subsection for Macy's, 7-11, the Exxon station, used car lots, office buildings, homeowners' association clubhouses...
Anyway, I'm not leaving a gun in my car at the church. I just don't leave guns in cars. So I looked here first for info, thinking I might have to disassemble the gun and put it in a lockbox to carry it in. Now, I'll not worry. I've not been to this church, but they say nothing about guns on their website (which is chock full of policies and procedures!). If there is a 30.06 sign at the door, I guess I'll just have to wait outside...can't be worse than being inside.
Thanks, guys, for the info.
Edit: Reference to the actual code at dps:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf
Addendum: It occurs to me that the referenced subsections (b)4, 5, and 6 are pointless given subsection (i), which essentially says those places are the same as any other establishment. I mean, they might was well have had a subsection for Macy's, 7-11, the Exxon station, used car lots, office buildings, homeowners' association clubhouses...
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Since The First United Methodist Church in Conroe,TX is the only Church in Montgomery County that posts 30.06 signs at it's entrances. One can imply that it must be the most dangerous church in Conroe,TX? Thoughts?
Only if some nut came to that church to kill people.
