Coming soon Kidd vs Er Shaw showdown

[TexMex247]

As some of you may already know, I'm a huge ruger 10/22 fan. Any of you who own one also know, the only thing better than a 10/22 is several 10/22s. I have been building and modding these puppies for a while now and pretty much know all the tricks of the trade. However, sometimes the get what you pay for rule over rides every bit of time and craftsmanship you can put into a gun. So today, I officially took the plunge and ordered a Kidd bull barrel in an 18" length. My current rifle used in the TGT RFC is a true frankengun made a variety of parts from different manufacturers/year models with an 18" SS ER shaw bull barrel topped with a Mueller APV scope. Overall, I have no complaints about it. With it, I have managed a 100 score w/4x bulls(so close to 6x though) at the 25yd line using wolf mt ammo. Of course that didn't happen on my first time out but several hundred rounds later, it has moved me into the marksman category, knocking on the door of the expert level. For years now, I have never felt the need to spend the extra dollars on something potentially better, thinking I have reached near the pinnacle of performance for a semi-auto 22 with the ammo I use.
Overall, I felt like this wouldn't be a true apples to apples test without the same ammo, optics and work put into the trigger group and bolt, by the same person at the same range, under all the same conditions. So hopefully, starting in the next week or two, I will either become a Kidd fanboy or a local TGT myth buster. I ordered an 18" bull barrel(non-threaded) hoping to achieve similar if not better results. I know every once and a while, even similar rifles like different ammo. Therefore my test will not be entirely limited to one load at one range. I plan on going through a spectrum of quality and bulk ammo although I will start with my go to ammo. Wolf MT, all from the same lot. If you are a 10/22 fanatic like I am, stay tuned....maybe I can help Tony Kidd shake a little more coin out of your pockets. Here is a picture of my current competition rifle basking in the sun.

 

[Pilgrim]

Subscribed.

BTW, TexMex gimme a holler next time you head out to the range. I'll let you shoot my full KIDD rifle so you can compare your trigger work with their dedicated two-stage trigger. You might be surprised...

I don't think BOTW and Eagle Peak have a bench for the 25-yard line so you might have to improvise.

 

[Sugar Land]

Subscribed.... I am doing a similar project. Keep us posted.

 

[ROGER4314]

I built a small mountain of those rifles using various components. I used some Green Mountain, Shaw and a few other barrels, triggers and stocks. Sounds like a great project!

Flash

 

[TexMex247]

Thanks for the offer pilgrim. I'll be the first to admit there are limitations to what you can do with a stock trigger group. However, my plan with this test is to duplicate the pull weights, optics, etc. and see how these guns do side by side. I'll be using a recently purchased vintage 2006 ruger as my starting point and comparing to my current rifle, one that also uses a pre 2008 trigger group. I'll do my best to match every aspect of click to hit performance and let the barrels do the talking. I have no doubt the kidd triggers are top notch and I'll probably take you up on that offer sooner than later. Thanks

 

[35Remington]

Subbed for sure

 

[TexMex247]

The barrel arrived today...time to get it together.

 

[TexMex247]

Almost got everything assembled then noticed that my rings were too low ! Luckily academy had some for only 6.99. Hopefully it stays under 100 degrees next Monday and the testing will begin. Here's a picture with the low rings. Saw it barely touching just before I tightened down the screws.

 

[TexMex247]

It doesn't really show in the picture but the Kidd bull barrel is about 1/8" shorter than the ER shaw one. Overall it does look like a fine piece of work. Pretty crown on the barrel and a nicely radiused chamber. I'm also glad I went with the bead blasted finish, it goes well with the silver Ruger receiver. My crappy camera doesn't do it much justice.

 

[35Remington]

Your crappy camera would do better if its operator focused it correctly. Gun looks great. What stock is that? And maybe I missed it somewhere, but why are you going all out on the barrel but leaving the trigger parts bone stock?

 

[TexMex247]

I have reworked the trigger to break at 2lb 2oz. It's the same work I put into my other rifle. It is a pre-08' group that still used the aluminum housing. I am very satisfied with it after reducing the pull and doing some polishing. I also headspace my bolts to a much tighter tolerance. The stocks are Hogue overmolded, I have never been a big fan of high end wood stocks with raised cheek pieces. Overall, I'm just trying to duplicate my Rimfire competition rifle and see if the Kidd barrel can out perform the ER shaw.

 

[breakingcontact]

Sick looking rifles, I need to get/build one like that, with a threaded barrel.

 

[Tejano Scott]

I'm so in! Subscribed and can't wait for the results. I'm heartbeats away from ordering a full KIDD build.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Bump... When is this supposed to be going down? I read on a 3rd grade level.

 

[TexMex247]

I went out and shot them both today. Took a few shots to get the new rifle dialed-in but to my disappointment, the ER shaw consistently out shot the Kidd barrel through 3 different ammo types. I started off with CCI SV, then switched to RWS R50 and then to Wolf MT. The wind was shifting all over the place on me and potentially pushing me off target here and there. The Kidd barrel was giving me a lot more fliers. I decided to bring the rifle home, check the V-block torque and stock pillar. I whipped it together in a hurry and hoped it would need no fitting but maybe in needs some tweaking. I'm gonna clean both barrels and re-test with only one ammo type at a time. I was distracted with 2 stock barrel rifles I was running some ammo through to chronograph. I'll start a new thread for that...it confirms the idea that a longer barrel slows down 22 bullets. Anyhow, between the wind and hasty build, I'm not ready to condemn the Kidd barrel. My only failures were mag related so I'll be giving those a good cleaning too. Overall, I was disappointed with the RWS ammo but like many say...you should season a barrel with 20 rds or so then test. I will probably do that next time and hopefully get to the range this week(Thursday if I'm lucky) and I'll bag and shoot both rifles at 50yds. The testing will continue and I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[40Arpent]

TM, could in be a matter of the ER barrel being well broken in, while the Kidd is not?

 

[TexMex247]

I'm not sure, my ER shaw really seemed to shoot well from the get go. I have heard of "seasoning" a barrel with a particular ammo type and that type only. I ran into some snags this week and haven't dissected the gun yet to examine the bedding,etc. I will be taking it apart and cleaning it today. We will see what I find. It's true that my Er shaw build had a hundred or more rounds of wolf mt through it since it's last cleaning. That may have been playing a big factor.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Still watching with interest. Was the kidd even close to sub moa?

 

[TexMex247]

So many fliers at 25yds, I would estimate it barely isn't MOA...yet.

 

[TexMex247]

I had some time this week to go through both rifles again. I cleaned them both to give them a fresh start. The only obvious difference was a slight variation in trigger pull weight. The Er shaw build breaks just under 2 lbs. The Kidd build I have breaking at around the 2lb 2oz. mark. I have the scope on the Kidd build positioned to offer just a bit more eye relief but aside from a different brand of rings, they are nearly identical.
Today, I did some re-testing using only wolf MT followed by some RWS r50. After about 20 rounds through each rifle, I started putting some on paper. Overall, I think both rifles could have done a little better if I had solidly bagged the stocks as well as the forend. I still saw significantly more fliers with the Kidd which resulted in larger groups. Both rifles performed better with the Wolf MT which happens to be less than half of the cost of the RW50. That may just be the nature of the 10/22 ? Perhaps the RW50 would really shine in a high end bolt rifle ? Anyhow, the end results were the same as previous tests. Sadly, the Kidd barrel for all it's prestige failed to outshoot it's near half price counterpart. Same optics, stocks, style of bedding, ammo and guy pulling the trigger, and the ER Shaw remains the victor.
In spite of it, I wouldn't call this my final conclusion. I am still willing to stretch them both even farther and see if the Kidd will outperform the Shaw in a 100yd setting. According to many reviews, that is where the high end ammo and equipment tend to outshine the others. For my final test, I have a batch of Wolf Match Extra coming in next week that has only recently become available again. Needless to say, I won't be selling my ER shaw 10/22 anytime soon, nor will it be replaced by the Kidd as my TGT RFC rifle but the Kidd build might make it's way to the classifieds if I can't do any better with it. On a positive note, I had only one failure to feed(mag related) from about 100rds through each rifle but did get a nice double out of the light trigger on the ER Shaw build which surprisingly enough, hardly effected the overall group size.
If one of you guys out there gets a chance, I'd like to see what kind of groups you can manage out of your Kidd barrels/rifles at 50 yds. Most of mine are 9 or 10 shots all from the same mag. Overall, the Kidd is still a quality barrel, eliminating one or two fliers really have an impact on overall group size but when you are looking to score 100s in a rimfire competition, I don't know if it will get it done. Here's a few pics of the targets.