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Chauvin guilty on all counts

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  • Rhino

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    Lawful in fact does mean "not a crime". The very definition of a crime is an act which is unlawful. Something lawful cannot then be a crime.

    I would really enjoy you explain how you can reach your conclusion.

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    But laws can conflict. If the 2A says our rights shall not be infringed, and one of us chooses to “bear” in a manner in conflict with the Penal Code, could not a jury determine that the code was in fact wrong, and a civilian who allegedly “resisted” was in fact within his rights? The cop might be “lawful” under the Penal Code, but is in fact infringing on the natural and Constitutional rights of the citizen.
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    Axxe55

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    But laws can conflict. If the 2A says our rights shall not be infringed, and one of us chooses to “bear” in a manner in conflict with the Penal Code, could not a jury determine that the code was in fact wrong, and a civilian who allegedly “resisted” was in fact within his rights? The cop might be “lawful” under the Penal Code, but is in fact infringing on the natural and Constitutional rights of the citizen.

    Have we forgotten that the citizen George Floyd committed a criminal act? What about the rights of the store where he passed the fake money? Do they have rights as citizens to be free from being stolen from?
     

    cycleguy2300

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    This thread is begging for the Godwin treatment. If a law is immoral, and plenty have been, the act is still a crime, and jury nullification and such is part of our history, and that can be positive or negative.
    That leads to where right and wrong are arbitrary and at the whim of the one making the judgement. If you are going to continue to make up definitions for words like "right", "wrong", "lawful", "crime" so they fit your argument I can't have an argument because an argument is based in fact, not arbitrarily assigned meanings to words.

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    gll

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    But laws can conflict. If the 2A says our rights shall not be infringed, and one of us chooses to “bear” in a manner in conflict with the Penal Code, could not a jury determine that the code was in fact wrong, and a civilian who allegedly “resisted” was in fact within his rights? The cop might be “lawful” under the Penal Code, but is in fact infringing on the natural and Constitutional rights of the citizen.
    "Jury nullification (US), jury equity[1][2] (UK), or a perverse verdict (UK)[3][4] generally occurs when members of a criminal trial jury believe that a defendant is guilty, but choose to acquit the defendant anyway, because the jurors consider that the law itself is unjust,[5][6] that the prosecutor has misapplied the law in the defendant's case,[7] or that the potential punishment for breaking the law is too harsh. Some juries have also refused to convict due to their own prejudices in favour of the defendant.[8]

    Nullification is not an official part of criminal procedure, but is the logical consequence of two rules governing the systems in which it exists:

    Jurors cannot be punished for reaching a "wrong" decision (such as acquitting a defendant despite their guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt).[9]
    A defendant who is acquitted cannot in many jurisdictions be tried a second time for the same offence.[10]
    A jury verdict that is contrary to the letter of the law pertains only to the particular case before it. However, if a pattern of acquittals develops in response to repeated attempts to prosecute a particular offence, this can have the de facto effect of invalidating the law. Such a pattern may indicate public opposition to an unwanted legislative enactment. It may also happen that a jury convicts a defendant even if no law was broken, although such a conviction may be overturned on appeal."
     

    Rhino

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    In this case the jurors are nullifying the PD policy of using a potentially lethal and likely unnecessary restraint and exercising an unreasonable apathy for human life.
     

    Rhino

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    That leads to where right and wrong are arbitrary and at the whim of the one making the judgement. If you are going to continue to make up definitions for words like "right", "wrong", "lawful", "crime" so they fit your argument I can't have an argument because an argument is based in fact, not arbitrarily assigned meanings to words.

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    I actually believe that there IS a higher Moral
    Law that the entire universe is subject to and frankly believe that Chauvin was acting in opposition to.

    All men are created in the Imago Dei and when it was relatively clear that the man was in distress and there were cries for him to act with mercy, he clearly and proudly refused to act with mercy. Criminal or not, Floyd was outnumbered and was no longer an imminent threat and Chauvin could have chosen a different set of actions. By the Minnesota definitions of manslaughter and 3rd degree murder, I have to say I believe the verdict on those two charges was just, and this is my last post on this thread. If you want the last word, I don’t feel like arguing anymore.
     
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    gll

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    In this case the jurors are nullifying the PD policy of using a potentially lethal and likely unnecessary restraint and exercising an unreasonable apathy for human life.
    "It may also happen that a jury convicts a defendant even if no law was broken, although such a conviction may be overturned on appeal."
     

    cycleguy2300

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    I actually believe that there IS a higher Moral
    Law that the entire universe is subject to and frankly believe that Chauvin was acting in opposition to.

    All men are created in the Imago Dei and when it was relatively clear that the man was in distress and there were cries for him to act with mercy, he clearly and proudly refused to act with mercy. Criminal or not, Floyd was outnumbered and was no longer an imminent threat and Chauvin could have chosen a different set of actions. By the Minnesota definitions of manslaughter and 3rd degree murder, I have to say I believe the verdict on those two charges was just, and this is my last post on this thread. If you want the last word, I don’t feel like arguing anymore.
    Like I said, I wont argue while you bend and twist meanings to suit your position, you claiming the moral high ground in your own mind and using Latin you had to look up won't change this.

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    Younggun

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    hill co.


    “NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
    The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.”

    For those who don’t want to find it.


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    cycleguy2300

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    “NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
    The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.”

    For those who don’t want to find it.


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    And the jury was not allowed to be presented with this! It is madness!

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    Dougw1515

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    Sufficient cause for a new trial. Probably the plan all along. Convict but provide multiple valid reasons for a new trial while hoping the conviction prevents total destruction of the multiple towns and cities. Allow time to pass. Grant new trial. Convict on manslaughter at next trial.

    If that's what plays out it's total bullshit. Yeah, I think manslaughter was the correct charge and is what he should'a been hit with. Do I think he killed floyd - no, most likely not. Do I think he contributed to his death - yeah, probably so. Could he have prevented floyds death - debateable.
     

    cygunner

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    Sufficient cause for a new trial. Probably the plan all along. Convict but provide multiple valid reasons for a new trial while hoping the conviction prevents total destruction of the multiple towns and cities. Allow time to pass. Grant new trial. Convict on manslaughter at next trial.

    If that's what plays out it's total bullshit. Yeah, I think manslaughter was the correct charge and is what he should'a been hit with. Do I think he killed floyd - no, most likely not. Do I think he contributed to his death - yeah, probably so. Could he have prevented floyds death - debateable.
    Have not read all posts, sorry if something like this has already been posted. Although thoroughly debunked by Fact Checkers (and we all know how fair and un-biased they are) one if not more of the jury pool was concerned about unrest and the safety of their person and property if the "right" verdict was not returned. These thoughts were as the trial was beginning.

    I offer this in support of the theory/supposition/possibility that the verdict could be one of "convenience"say to be quietly overturned after things quiet down if possible in that hell hole of a city.

    I agree on "total bullshit" but my neighborhood is not involved. Yet.
     

    Sam7sf

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