CC at gun show?

[alanwk]

Can you conceal carry (with a LTC) at a gun show in Texas? Also when buying a gun with a LTC, what forms do you need to fill out since we are exempt from background check?

 

[Bozz10mm]

You fill out the same paper work when buying a gun with a LTC as you do without a LTC. ATF form 4473. As far as gun show carrying, you can, unless it's posted, AFAIK. Probably even without an LTC now that Texas has constitutional carry.

 

[studenygreg]

Not at the ones I have gone to. It was dumb. I had to unload the pistol, empty the mag rounds, and they put a zip tie through the mag well. I could have walked to the bathroom and cut the zip tie and put everything back if I wanted too.

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[studenygreg]

But then again, concealed is concealed. I guess you can if no one notices.

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[easy rider]

As far as LTC when buying a gun, they are not required to run a background check, so you may not have a wait. Some places may still run a background check though, as in Academy.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Not at the ones I have gone to. It was dumb. I had to unload the pistol, empty the mag rounds, and they put a zip tie through the mag well. I could have walked to the bathroom and cut the zip tie and put everything back if I wanted too.

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What kind of signage do they have there? 30.06 and 30.07?

 

[Gordo]

Last show at Alzafar here in San Antonio, Texas Gun Shows announced that there couldn't be any loaded weapons carried by vendors.
That Rucking Sucks. I've always carried at shows that I'm set up at.

 

[jimbo]

What kind of signage do they have there? 30.06 and 30.07?

Yes, both

 

[Kar98]

As a law abiding citizen and respector of private property rights and the wishes of private business operators, I most certainly obey the law and posted signage at gun shows. and every gun show I've visited in Texas, ever, was posted to the meaning of "no loaded guns allowed inside".

 

[Bozz10mm]

As a law abiding citizen and respector of private property rights and the wishes of private business operators, I most certainly obey the law and posted signage at gun shows. and every gun show I've visited in Texas, ever, was posted to the meaning of "no loaded guns allowed inside".

Meaning they all had the proper 30.06 and 30.07 signs prominently displayed, right? I don't know, since I haven't been to a gun show since 1980.

 

[Kar98]

Meaning they all had the proper 30.06 and 30.07 signs prominently displayed, right? I don't know, since I haven't been to a gun show since 1980.

Yes they did, impossible to miss, proper size, placing, wording and even if there weren't proper signs, there were still people at the entrance giving verbal notice which counts.

 

[General Zod]

Can you conceal carry (with a LTC) at a gun show in Texas? Also when buying a gun with a LTC, what forms do you need to fill out since we are exempt from background check?

1) Depends on what signage is posted at the door. Sadly, some of the big gun shows post 30,06 and 30.07, while others require you to draw, unload, and reholster your firearm at the door.

2) You still fill out the 4473, the dealer just doesn't have to send it in and wait for a reply. They're still required to have the record on file.

 

[majormadmax]

1) Depends on what signage is posted at the door. Sadly, some of the big gun shows post 30,06 and 30.07, while others require you to draw, unload, and reholster your firearm at the door.

2) You still fill out the 4473, the dealer just doesn't have to send it in and wait for a reply. They're still required to have the record on file.

Not quite correct. The FFL doesn't have to call in (a.k.a., do a NICS check on) your 4473, he/she simply annotates your LTC number on the form and all's good!

Also, completed Forms 4473 are retained by the FFL which they must retain for 20 years after the date of the sale or disposition!

Licensees must keep every 4473 for which a NICS check has been initiated, regardless of whether the firearm was transferred; but if a transfer is not made, the FFL only has to keep the form for five years after the date of the NICS inquiry.

Forms 4473 for transfers that did not take place must be maintained separately. from those that did.

The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of, the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation.

In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five-day period must be reported to the ATF via a Form 3310.4.

 

[General Zod]

Not quite correct. The FFL doesn't have to call in (a.k.a., do a NICS check on) your 4473, he/she simply annotates your LTC number on the form and all's good!

Also, completed Forms 4473 are retained by the FFL which they must retain for 20 years after the date of the sale or disposition!

Licensees must keep every 4473 for which a NICS check has been initiated, regardless of whether the firearm was transferred; but if a transfer is not made, the FFL only has to keep the form for five years after the date of the NICS inquiry.

Forms 4473 for transfers that did not take place must be maintained separately. from those that did.

The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of, the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation.

In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five-day period must be reported to the ATF via a Form 3310.4.

So, exactly what I said but you object to the wording. "Send it in" being the phrase I used to represent either calling it in (do any dealers still do this with a phone call?) or sending it electronically to perform the NICS check.

 

[ldaniel]

If the Gun Show is at a privately owned building, you can't legally carry if the signs are posted. However if it at a place owned or leased by a city, county, or state - Read the text below, notice on Section 411.209 - it states 'may not take any action' not 'shall not...' I carry concealed and I just walk past the officers and buy ticket. If they discover I am carrying and ask me to leave, I will leave- I don't want to raise a ruckus.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03.

Texas Gov. Code Sec. 411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF HANDGUN LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) Except as provided by Subsection (i), a state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not take any action, including an action consisting of the provision of notice by a communication described by Section 30.06 or 30.07, Penal Code, that states or implies that a license holder who is carrying a handgun under the authority of this sub-chapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03, Penal Code, or other law.
(b) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state that violates Subsection (a) is liable for a civil penalty of:
(1) not less than $1,000 and not more than $1,500 for the first violation; and
(2) not less than $10,000 and not more than $10,500 for the second or a subsequent violation.
(c) Each day of a continuing violation of Subsection (a) constitutes a separate violation

(i) Subsection (a) does not apply to a written notice provided by a state hospital under Section 552.002, Health and Safety Code.

 

[Kar98]

So, exactly what I said but you object to the wording

You really don't wanna come at the ATF with that argument LOL

 

[Glenn B]

I, forr one, can understand why the folks who run shows have attendees and dealers unload their firearms. I understand that because the only negligent/accidental discharge I have witnessed at a show was caused by a vendor who did not unload what he wss selling. When it went bang leds than 25 feet away from me and my son, it was startling to say the lesst. That dealer accepted zero resonsibility at the time but was banned from any future shows.

A close call at another show, that I both witnessed and prevented, was a dealer who took a loaded revolver from an attendee to look it over and maybe buy it. As he was blabbing with the attendee, he placed his finger on the trigger as if he was going to dry fore it. At that moment I was telling them the gun was loaded. I could see the rims of the shell casings in the cylinder as I was looking it over as the dealer handled it. I was half interested in the gun should the dealer not buy it. The attendee was a high ranking local police officer. The attendee and the dealer got pissed at me, then when the dealer finally decided to look at the gun, he told off the cop. In no way did the dealer or the officer seem to accept any responsibility for doing anything wrong, the cop stood there looking like an idiot apparently remaining pissed at me. I just left.

In addition, the four or five other discharges I have heard about at gun shows were almost all allegedly fired by dealers, as best I recall only one by an attendee.

While I much would prefer to carry loaded, I understand - what with potential liablity and no shortage of idiots who go to gun shows - the reasoning behind the show promoters wanting only unloaded weapons in the venues. Regardless of someone violating their rules by cutting off the zip-tie and loading the firearm in the restroom or someone not compling and sneaking a loaded gun inside, they can show they did their due diligence to prevent a discharge at the show. It all revolves around the sharks in the water and if someone is accidentally/negligently shot at a show the asset feeding frenzy will commence.

 

[General Zod]

You really don't wanna come at the ATF with that argument LOL

ATF wasn't the one quibbling with me...

 

[leVieux]

But then again, concealed is concealed. I guess you can if no one notices.

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That’s my policy.

Having spent much of my life in Universities & hospitals; I dress well, am extremely polite, always consider exits, threats, etc.

BUT, I refuse to disarm.

For a while after Katrina, the LSU I-H @ N.O. tried passing everyone through a metal detector. Of couirse, one had to walk through a terrible crime neighborhood from parking. Faculty & Staff complained so that they finally decided to sllow everyone with a valid University ID to bypass the detectors.

Worked well, but we still had serious criminal attacks on premises.

This is why I refuse to go to the SuperDome. NFL “policy” was even forcing local Police and the Sheriff to disarm to enter. Yet it is in the middle of. a major crime neighborhood. I’m so disgusted with the NFL that I “don’t go, don’t watch, don’t buy”.

At my age, I just won’t go. . . . .

leVieux
.

 

[leVieux]

I, forr one, can understand why the folks who run shows have attendees and dealers unload their firearms. I understand that because the only negligent/accidental discharge I have witnessed at a show was caused by a vendor who did not unload what he wss selling. When it went bang leds than 25 feet away from me and my son, it was startling to say the lesst. That dealer accepted zero resonsibility at the time but was banned from any future shows.

A close call at another show, that I both witnessed and prevented, was a dealer who took a loaded revolver from an attendee to look it over and maybe buy it. As he was blabbing with the attendee, he placed his finger on the trigger as if he was going to dry fore it. At that moment I was telling them the gun was loaded. I could see the rims of the shell casings in the cylinder as I was looking it over as the dealer handled it. I was half interested in the gun should the dealer not buy it. The attendee was a high ranking local police officer. The attendee and the dealer got pissed at me, then when the dealer finally decided to look at the gun, he told off the cop. In no way did the dealer or the officer seem to accept any responsibility for doing anything wrong, the cop stood there looking like an idiot apparently remaining pissed at me. I just left.

In addition, the four or five other discharges I have heard about at gun shows were almost all allegedly fired by dealers, as best I recall only one by an attendee.

While I much would prefer to carry loaded, I understand - what with potential liablity and no shortage of idiots who go to gun shows - the reasoning behind the show promoters wanting only unloaded weapons in the venues. Regardless of someone violating their rules by cutting off the zip-tie and loading the firearm in the restroom or someone not compling and sneaking a loaded gun inside, they can show they did their due diligence to prevent a discharge at the show. It all revolves around the sharks in the water and if someone is accidentally/negligently shot at a show the asset feeding frenzy will commence.

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Your points are well-taken.

But,

Either “unload or stay holstered” seems to work well.

A friend, a 6’5’’ ex-Marine, was robbed at gunpoint in a restroom at a Harlingen “Gun Show” a few years back.

Here in LA, some genius unloaded his PPKS carry for a show, then left, tried to reload in his truck, and shot himself in the leg.

We all have seen, or heard of, some really experienced person having an
“A-D”; it happens.

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