Can a felon legally own a Cap & Ball Revolver?

[ZX9RCAM]

Maybe he took a ride for a black powder revolver....

 

[Axxe55]

Maybe he took a ride for a black powder revolver....

Possible!

 

[phoenix]

congrats on turning your life around. It seems to me that sadly so many do not do what you did that there is not even discussion of full civil rights restoration ( including guns). Now there are many demanding felons get to vote yet they wont trust someone responsible like you seem to be. I personally think possession of a personal amount of any drug should not be a felony. I am not ready to legalize them all yet, but women can kill unborn babies without a second thought and men can become women i would think someone wants to do some blow or a joint its a personal decision.

Sort of on cap and ball topic. Say government gets a bit naughty and we need some extra stuff. How long can you have a loaded ready to fire cap and ball gun stored? I realize there could be moisure issues so lets just say you vaccum seal a couple loaded

 

[Wiliamr]

It's a firearm.

Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:

(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or

(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.

(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the later of:

(1) the date of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the misdemeanor; or

(2) the date of the person's release from community supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor.

 

[Wiliamr]

Under Title 10 Chapter 46 Texas Penal Code,
Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:

(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or

(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.

(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the later of:

(1) the date of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the misdemeanor; or

(2) the date of the person's release from community supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor."

Federal law differs from Texas law. Federal law prohibits the possession of a gun by any person convicted of any crime for which imprisonment for longer than a year is possible (18 USC § 922(g)(1)).

Federal law prohibits any convicted felon from possessing a gun. It also bans their possession of ammunition, cartridge cases, primers, propellant powder, and bullets (18 USC §921(a)(17)(A)).

Herein lies the rub. A convicted Texas felon can legally own a gun in their home so long as they meet the above mentioned legal terms. But if prosecuted under federal law, the same resident can be convicted of the crime of illegally possessing a firearm.

 

[Quixote Six]

What you have posted above is a correct statement of the law. However, what is missing from your post is the definition of "firearm." Under both Texas state and federal law, an antique firearm - that is, one made before 1899, or a replica of said antique firearm (no matter when made) if the replica does not use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition - is specifically exempted from regulation. See Title 10 Chapter 46 Texas Penal Code,
Sec. 46.01(3)(A)&(B); 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16). Thus a prohibited person may possess either an antique firearm or a replica of an antique that does not use cartridges. They may possess a black powder cap and ball antique or replica.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Can felons possess black powder?

 

[jrbfishn]

Technically, no. It is classified as an explosive substance. Substitutes such as Pyrodex are classified as "flamable substitutes" and are legal even though they perform the same function.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Axxe55]

Wonder if the OP is coming back?

Probably not!

 

[Wiliamr]

What you have posted above is a correct statement of the law. However, what is missing from your post is the definition of "firearm." Under both Texas state and federal law, an antique firearm - that is, one made before 1899, or a replica of said antique firearm (no matter when made) if the replica does not use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition - is specifically exempted from regulation. See Title 10 Chapter 46 Texas Penal Code,
Sec. 46.01(3)(A)&(B); 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16). Thus a prohibited person may possess either an antique firearm or a replica of an antique that does not use cartridges. They may possess a black powder cap and ball antique or replica.

You are correct under Texas law. BUT and this is a big BUT! Under federal law this:
Federal law, at 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines a firearm as:

(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

‘Antique firearm’ is specifically exempted from the definition. But what exactly does that term mean? Further in the same code section, we find the following:

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

I have no case cites currently, but almost any black powder pistol can be readily and easily converted to fire centerfire ammunition. Several companies make conversion cylinders (could be argued as breechblock) and these can with some very minimal metal grinding convert a BP pistol to centerfire. Examples are Kirst Konverter, Howell Arms conversion cylinder,Taylors and Company conversion cylinders. These are easily and readily available from both Brownells and Midway. About the only safely owned by a felon BP firearm would be a flint lock or maybe a percussion cap rifle. (Though to go to the extreme, many percussion cap rifles were converted to centerfire after the Civil War giving us the Allin modification which converted many Springfield Muzzle loaders to 1866 Trapdoors.
So, were I a state convicted felon, possession of a BP pistol would be something I kept at home under wraps and never told anyone about. A Federal convicted felon... just know, that if arrested by a local PD, word might just slip to a Federal prosecutor about said arrest..... Would not want to be in that situation as far fetched as it might be.

 

[Quixote Six]

Can felons possess black powder?

In Most Frequently Asked Firearms Questions and Answers, the ATF says yes, but not more than 50 lbs.

"In addition, the GCA defines the term "ammunition" to mean "ammunition or cartridge cases,primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm." Because an "antique firearm" is not a "firearm," it would be lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an "antique firearm." Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in 'antique firearms.' See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)."
See https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download

 

[jrbfishn]

All of this is why, if I am asked for advice, I will almost always tell them to talk to an attorney before they decide to buy.
What "readily convertible" means is up to debate and the courts to decide. What one court may let you pass on, another may hang you for.

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[Quixote Six]

You are correct under Texas law. BUT and this is a big BUT! Under federal law this:
Federal law, at 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines a firearm as...

Again, correct statement of the law, but disagree with your analysis. The term breechlock has a specific definition and it does not include a revolver cylinder. It is a way of closing the breech or chamber and not the chambers themselves. If your analysis were correct, replicas could not be imported as antiques or sold without filling out a Form 4473.

Further, the ATF has classified certain muzzle loading models as firearms. All of these
models incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting barrels
designed to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. None of these include true antique revolvers or the cap and ball replica revolvers by Peitta, Uberti, Taylor's, or the Ruger Old Army, etc. See the ATF's discussion in its Feb 2005 newsletter on page 2 of Muzzle Loading Firearms at
https://www.atf.gov/file/56421/download

 

[philipgonzales3]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have decided it just isn't worth the headache. Maybe one day this will change but not likely. Oh well, guess I better look into the legalities of owning a baseball bat now. On to texasbaseballtalk.com I go!

 

[Mohawk600]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have decided it just isn't worth the headache. Maybe one day this will change but not likely. Oh well, guess I better look into the legalities of owning a baseball bat now. On to texasbaseballtalk.com I go!

you could always get brass knuckles.....trench knife......maybe some nunchucks.....nightstick.....sap.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[phoenix]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have decided it just isn't worth the headache. Maybe one day this will change but not likely. Oh well, guess I better look into the legalities of owning a baseball bat now. On to texasbaseballtalk.com I go!

Honestly I would talk to groups like the naacp, splc and aclu about voting rights for felons. Sooner or later they will make bigger issues about that in Texas. If I understand right felons are not barred for life from voting. It a couple states they still are and in a brief lapse of sanity enough conservatives in florida who voted trump and republicans in the senate and for governor also voted to allow felons to vote again not realizing they might have helped turn the state blue.

I use the theory if someone is too dangerous to own a gun they should not vote. You may want to get an advocacy together for that as there are felons who should have their voting and gun rights restored depending on crime. Democrats want all of them to vote but none to have guns.

 

[philipgonzales3]

Honestly I would talk to groups like the naacp, splc and aclu about voting rights for felons. Sooner or later they will make bigger issues about that in Texas. If I understand right felons are not barred for life from voting. It a couple states they still are and in a brief lapse of sanity enough conservatives in florida who voted trump and republicans in the senate and for governor also voted to allow felons to vote again not realizing they might have helped turn the state blue.

I use the theory if someone is too dangerous to own a gun they should not vote. You may want to get an advocacy together for that as there are felons who should have their voting and gun rights restored depending on crime. Democrats want all of them to vote but none to have guns.

Not sure I follow what you are saying. My voting rights were restored when I completed my probation. I'm also not black :-D.

 

[phoenix]

Ok I am sure that we are all big boys and girls. I am sure we know demographics of prison and voting. If felons vote a super majority would vote democrat and thus democrats want felons to vote. Do you really think the naacp, aclu and splc were trying to get signatures in florida in order to get trump reelected? Not only that but the republicans won the governor and the house by just over 50% yet the amendment 4 passed by 65% ( it needed 60) that manes 5% or so of republicand did not realize all the votes they are handing over to democrats that in turns hands my country to gangsters and prostitutes. NO one thought wants to talk about "Whey you did you gime you get your rights back" about guns. You are either a full citizen or not. I believe if you are too dangerous to own an gun you should not vote, but democrats would lose votes. ON bidens webpage with criminal justice reform he mentions registering them when they get out of jail in the "check out process' right next to that it says they wont get their firearms ( or guns i forget) rights automatically restored. Now to me that translates into "White liberals do not worry. we will not let them have guns so they can pray on you and your daughters but we need their votes. Its not like we want them to live next to you, date your daughter or manage your companies"

 

[Axxe55]

Ok I am sure that we are all big boys and girls. I am sure we know demographics of prison and voting. If felons vote a super majority would vote democrat and thus democrats want felons to vote. Do you really think the naacp, aclu and splc were trying to get signatures in florida in order to get trump reelected? Not only that but the republicans won the governor and the house by just over 50% yet the amendment 4 passed by 65% ( it needed 60) that manes 5% or so of republicand did not realize all the votes they are handing over to democrats that in turns hands my country to gangsters and prostitutes. NO one thought wants to talk about "Whey you did you gime you get your rights back" about guns. You are either a full citizen or not. I believe if you are too dangerous to own an gun you should not vote, but democrats would lose votes. ON bidens webpage with criminal justice reform he mentions registering them when they get out of jail in the "check out process' right next to that it says they wont get their firearms ( or guns i forget) rights automatically restored. Now to me that translates into "White liberals do not worry. we will not let them have guns so they can pray on you and your daughters but we need their votes. Its not like we want them to live next to you, date your daughter or manage your companies"

 

[popsgarland]

I believe this is for all of the states but I do know it's for Texas'

Felons were given back their right to vote after they have completed their probation and/or parole. I also think, but hold me to it, that all rights were given back with the exception of gun owner ship.