Caliber Size Doesn't Matter.....

[Bithabus]

As you said you are at a root level stabbing someone with a bullet. The bigger the bullet the bigger the stab. You have a higher chance of getting something critical with a bigger bullet.

I don't think this is so. A hit to an area of the body that will cause a person to stop with a smaller bullet will have the same effect as a hit from a larger bullet. If you're talking about a .45 nicking a blood vessel that a 9mm may miss, I suppose that's possible, but we don't rely on exsanguation to stop violent attackers. Look at the diamter of a 147 gr expanded 9mm and an expanded 230 gr .45 ACP. Not much difference. Also, any benefit that the larger bullet may carry is outweighed, heavily IMO, but the greater magazine capacity and carryability afforded by the smaller caliber.

 

[Texas1911]

As you said you are at a root level stabbing someone with a bullet. The bigger the bullet the bigger the stab. You have a higher chance of getting something critical with a bigger bullet.

True, but it's not a massive difference.

 

[Texas1911]

How is a .45 going to stop someone better than a .380? What do you mean by "stopping power" and where does an attacker's body weight going to come into it??

The more fat / muscle you have to get through the more penetration required of the bullet.

 

[Texas1911]

If caliber doesn't matter then why make bigger bullets?

If you look at the progression of bullet diameter you'll notice that it has decreased significantly. A .45 ACP is a pea-shooter compared to what it replaced 100 years before it. It was common to have ranks of infantry firing balls in calibers ranging from .58" to over .80" ... that is to say, you were getting hit with a solid iron or lead projectile sometimes 20mm in diameter.

It's funny, a .45 ACP is the machismo big-bore "man stopper" according to a bunch of John Wayne types, but it's really a moderate caliber, low powered round. Go back to the time of Jefferson and they'd all laugh at your girly caliber.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Go back to the time of Jefferson and they'd all laugh at your girly caliber.

Not when ya pull the trigger 8 times.....

 

[Charlie]

Not when ya pull the trigger 8 times..... View attachment 9692

Or 12 to 14 times, depending on the model of your .45!!

 

[TexasRedneck]

Or 12 to 14 times, depending on the model of your .45!!

hell, if yer gonna go THERE, toss one of these on it....



Magazine Colt 1911 & GOVERNMENT DRUM MAGAZINE .45 ACP (25) RD BL [2141196] - $48.32 : Ed's Work Clothes & Sporting Goods, Guns, Ammo, camo, knifes, riffles, long guns, Parts, clips, magazines

 

[Charlie]

They're just tough to hide under your shirt, though!

 

[leonidas]

Thanks for posting this, however, due to copyright issues I had to remove the article and leave the link. Unless it states it's for free distribution on the page or article I would just quote a small portion of it and leave a link along with the author's name. That fulfills the fair use of the item and gives credit back to the publisher / author where it is due.

Good to know, didn't mean to infringe on anyone's work.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

One of the things people overlook is shooting at speed. How well can you shoot fast? The one area I see people have the most problems with is learning how to hold the gun properly and how to have a good upper body stance when shooting handguns. I would say a majority of people do not do it right, at least not in a manner to realistically and consistently be able to shoot fast and have a good balance of speed and accuracy. Can you shoot 3 or 4 shots a second? If not, you're not shooting fast enough for 7yds and in. 1 round per second is likely not gonna cut it if some dude is running at you with a knife at close range. That's not to say it can't be done with .45acp. I can do it, plenty of other people can, and I've known a few petite women that can with .45acp 1911's because they had proper technique and were very aggressive in controlling the gun. Regardless, it's only easier with less recoil, like say with a 9mm. I'd rather have a slightly smaller caliber and be able to easily control it so I can easily shoot at speed (even 1 handed) versus having a big caliber for that few percent ballistic improvement......but that has a drastic increase in recoil to the point where it's tough to control. So many of these little subcompact .45's people go with are a handful and tough to control for most people, which makes them less than ideal IMO. Putting rounds on target as fast and accurately as you can is what matters.

 

[Skip]

One of the things people overlook is shooting at speed. How well can you shoot fast? The one area I see people have the most problems with is learning how to hold the gun properly and how to have a good upper body stance when shooting handguns. I would say a majority of people do not do it right, at least not in a manner to realistically and consistently be able to shoot fast and have a good balance of speed and accuracy. Can you shoot 3 or 4 shots a second? If not, you're not shooting fast enough for 7yds and in. 1 round per second is likely not gonna cut it if some dude is running at you with a knife at close range. That's not to say it can't be done with .45acp. I can do it, plenty of other people can, and I've known a few petite women that can with .45acp 1911's because they had proper technique and were very aggressive in controlling the gun. Regardless, it's only easier with less recoil, like say with a 9mm. I'd rather have a slightly smaller caliber and be able to easily control it so I can easily shoot at speed (even 1 handed) versus having a big caliber for that few percent ballistic improvement......but that has a drastic increase in recoil to the point where it's tough to control. So many of these little subcompact .45's people go with are a handful and tough to control for most people, which makes them less than ideal IMO. Putting rounds on target as fast and accurately as you can is what matters.

And you know what I never see discussed concerning SD? Flinching.....Blinking.... nobody accounts for the "Freak-out" factor.

 

[Texas42]

If you look at the progression of bullet diameter you'll notice that it has decreased significantly. A .45 ACP is a pea-shooter compared to what it replaced 100 years before it. It was common to have ranks of infantry firing balls in calibers ranging from .58" to over .80" ... that is to say, you were getting hit with a solid iron or lead projectile sometimes 20mm in diameter.

It's funny, a .45 ACP is the machismo big-bore "man stopper" according to a bunch of John Wayne types, but it's really a moderate caliber, low powered round. Go back to the time of Jefferson and they'd all laugh at your girly caliber.

Part of me wants my next "assault rifle" to be an 1855 .58 caliber muzzle loader.

 

[M. Sage]

And you know what I never see discussed concerning SD? Flinching.....Blinking.... nobody accounts for the "Freak-out" factor.

One thing I've noticed when the adrenaline hits hard - I don't blink unless I force myself to.

 

[TexasRedneck]

One thing I've noticed when the adrenaline hits hard - I don't blink unless I force myself to.

I've had full-tilt SHTF twice in my life - and for me, it was purely reaction per my training. Really don't remember much, yet remember everything like it was slow motion. If you've "been there", you know what I mean. If you haven't - be glad.

On the "damn-near" SHTF (like last years' incident in Dallas), that was slow-motion as well - yet it happened so quickly that it was pure instinct/training/whatever you want to call it. But bottom line is that afterwards as I reviewed what I did, I saw nothing I'd have done different, given the situation. And that's one of the reasons I generally try to avoid the "what-if" scenarios, because there are SO many nuances that can/could/should affect what you do that it's impossible to even begin to cover 'em all.

 

[M. Sage]

I've had full-tilt SHTF twice in my life - and for me, it was purely reaction per my training. Really don't remember much, yet remember everything like it was slow motion. If you've "been there", you know what I mean. If you haven't - be glad.

On the "damn-near" SHTF (like last years' incident in Dallas), that was slow-motion as well - yet it happened so quickly that it was pure instinct/training/whatever you want to call it. But bottom line is that afterwards as I reviewed what I did, I saw nothing I'd have done different, given the situation. And that's one of the reasons I generally try to avoid the "what-if" scenarios, because there are SO many nuances that can/could/should affect what you do that it's impossible to even begin to cover 'em all.

True.

Two things about what he calls the "freak out factor". Some people will freak (most of them that do will actually freeze), but some won't. Training helps, the better the training and the more you do it, the more it helps. But some people will still lose it, no matter how well trained.

Basically it comes down to train as much as you can and hope you don't lose it when it hits the fan.

 

[Skip]

I'm not really talking about those of us that train and practice alot, more about how these variables are seldom considered in SD scenarios. Just an observation... that's all.

 

[M. Sage]

I'm not really talking about those of us that train and practice alot, more about how these variables are seldom considered in SD scenarios. Just an observation... that's all.

For people who seldom or never train, it's not even an issue worth considering because they won't anyway. They're either going to run around in circles screaming, seize up or they'll do whatever small amount of training they've had tells them to.