Beginner questions

[Me]

After a recent thread looking for local ammo I decided to dip my toe in the reloading waters. Never touched the stuff before and just did some really basic reading the last couple days online. Looking to start on 45-70 and aiming for subsonic (I shoot suppressed). I'm just plinking with this thing and maybe take it for hogs or deer some time, no long range precision or anything like that so not looking for best of the best, just good enough to get the job done and not bottom of the barrel discount garbage. So some questions:

1) brass: I'm looking at Starline 45-70 brass, is that decent?
2) primers: hard to find of course. Do any large rifle primers work or do I need specific large rifle primers? i.e. if I can find large magnum rifle primers but can't find standard large rifle primers is that OK? Are the one's marked as mil-spec 7.62 normal large rifle primers or are they specific to 7.62x51? I see a box of CCI labeled as #200 that implies there are other numbers as well, do I care about that?
3) Powder: I've seen some threads recommending Trail Boss powder for subsonic 45-70, some recommend Accurate 5744, and one recommending IMR 4895. Any thoughts on those or recommendations for something else? I have no idea what the differences are between all these dozens of powders, should I care that much which powder I buy?
4) bullets: Brownells has SNS 405 gr .459 bullets that are marked 45/70. I thought 45-70 stuff was actually .458 but what's a .001" between friends I guess? Seems like commercial subsonics are often 405 gr or 410 gr so I should be good with those right? Any other recommendations on bullets? Can I generally run anything .458 (or .459 I guess?) in 45-70 and just pick my favorite combo of weight, jacketing (or none in this case), and nose shape?
5) loading manual: any recommendation for something useful that covers 45-70 subsonic?

Thanks.

 

[t-astragal]

Ideally with lead or coated lead use .001-.002” over bore diameter. Bigger is better than smaller to cut down on barrel leading.

Get a hammer bullet puller from the beginning too. You’ll need to pull a seated bullet and measure it to verify that you’re not swaging the diameter down by seating it. You’ll need a bigger expander if so.

Stick to published data, but yeah it’s ok to use magnum primers for plinking subs.

Star line is excellent.

Buy powder by the lb and test different loads then find what you like and load in bulk.


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[usmcpmi]

Welcome! 45/70 is a fun to load. Unless you are wanting to shoot long range target matches for score, brass is brass, primers are primers and bullets are bullets. Modern brass is all reloadable. Modern primers are all reliable. Bullets purchased online from major suppliers will work just fine. As said before, follow the loading tables. Clear your schedule of other tasks when you plan to reload. Pick a load and try it out before you load a bunch. I have several 45/70 rifles from modern to 160 years old. Each likes a different diameter bullet. You need to try some loads to see what your rifle likes. Easiest is to meet up with other shooters that reload and see if they have a handful of bullets you can try. I cast my own bullets so I can size them to whatever rifle I am loading for...if you are looking to shoot sub-loads, cast will be just fine as they like to run slower than jacketed bullets. Ask around here to see if there is a member close to you that might give you a hand starting out.
Good luck!

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[RankAmateur]

OP, please take the following in the spirit it is intended. The questions you are asking are entirely appropriate, but also, as you indicate, show an almost complete naivety around loading issues. You're going down the right path. Start with a manual. When I started, more experienced loaders recommended that I get and read three manuals (so that information would be reinforced and any discrepancies would be identified). For the loads themselves, you might consider data/manuals from the bullet manufacturer or powder manufacturer you settle on. For general info and a variety of loads, you might consider the Lyman manual (not tied to any single bullet/powder manufacturer). The Sierra and Hornady manuals contain 45-70 loads for specific rifles, but neither provide subsonic load data. Lyman provides a single section with a subsonic load.

Yes, powder selection is VERY important and not just any powder will do. different powders burn at different rates and produce different pressures. The speed at which those pressures are produced are generally tied to the length of the barrel they are intended to be used in. Rifle powders are "slower" as they have longer to exert their force on the bullet in longer barrels. Do NOT use any pistol powder in a rifle.

All large rifle primers are the same size, so any will "fit" in the primer pocket of your brass. Different primers produce different amounts of flame/heat/particles to efficiently ignite different powders. Some primers are manufactured with "harder" metal cups and are intended to resist slam fire from floating firing pins. Those may resist consistent ignition if your rifle has a weaker/tired spring. That aside, you CAN use any large rifle primer, but you have to develop your load carefully with THAT primer. I.E., you can't develop a load (or take load data from a manual) that uses a standard LRP and simply substitute a magnum primer without re-developing a safe load using that "hotter" primer.

Ideally, try to find an experienced loader to coach you. Handloading has become a parallel but separate hobby to shooting for me. It can be fun and very interesting all on its own. But, it has to be done safely. You will need to be able to assess if your handholds are producing safe pressures. That will usually be done either by inspection of the primers/cases of fired rounds you loaded, but you have to know what you are looking for. Another way is by assessing the velocity of the bullets from your loads. You will need a chronograph for that. See if you can borrow one or work with a reloading friend who has one if you can.

Good luck! I hope you enjoy reloading as much as I do!

 

[rotor]

Above is all very good advice.
Remember safety, eye protection, maybe hearing protection, etc.
Load data....
https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/subsonic-data-final.pdf
Know your rifle, there is load data for 3 different 45-70 rifles, Trapdoor the weakest.

Lyman manual is good too. Manuals like Hornady and Speers only cover their bullets. Still nice to have especially Hornady.

If you shoot enough you will save money with 45-70 reloading. I bought a bunch of 45-70 supplies and then the rifle deal fell through. Supplies are much more obtainable now, not as inexpensive as before but still worth it when you consider the price of rifle cartridges. Have uninterrupted fun reloading.

 

[craigntx]

Trail boss is engineered so long as its not compressed it won't be over pressure. Just mark where the bottom of the projectile will seat and fill to just below that line.
It dont get easier than that

 

[usmcpmi]

Ok. I'll throw this out there. I'm close to ATX if you want to meet up and talk reloading.


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[Me]

lots of good advice in this thread, thank you all. One more quick question then I have lots to digest here. Are those handheld presses a gimmick or are they useful? I don't know if I'm sticking with this yet or not so I don't want to go straight to a big multi-stage unit but I'm not sure if handheld units are more toys than useful tools and I should at least go to a single stage bench mounted unit.

Thanks again.

 

[craigntx]

lots of good advice in this thread, thank you all. One more quick question then I have lots to digest here. Are those handheld presses a gimmick or are they useful? I don't know if I'm sticking with this yet or not so I don't want to go straight to a big multi-stage unit but I'm not sure if handheld units are more toys than useful tools and I should at least go to a single stage bench mounted unit.

Thanks again.

I have the red Lee.
Its fine for case prep.

 

[jrbfishn]

If you are talking about the Lee hand held press, they work on .223/5.56, 9mm and 45 colt just fine. Your shoulders are going to get a work out though. I would go with a single stage bench mounted press if you can. Even somewhere small with little to no room you can get a small work table from Harbor Freight and make it work. I use that and a small folding table from Walmart. It works. I have a handheld press, and it does work. The bench mount is better though. And about the same price.
The handheld is best when it absolutely has to be portable. Everything for a couple calibers but powder, bullets and primers will easily fit in a 50 cal ammo can.

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[RankAmateur]

lots of good advice in this thread, thank you all. One more quick question then I have lots to digest here. Are those handheld presses a gimmick or are they useful? I don't know if I'm sticking with this yet or not so I don't want to go straight to a big multi-stage unit but I'm not sure if handheld units are more toys than useful tools and I should at least go to a single stage bench mounted unit.

Thanks again.

You should presume that you will load for 45-70 for years to come, and that you might even expand to other cartridges as well. Even if it is adequate, you will likely replace a handheld with a bench mounted press in short order, and the handheld will just sit on a shelf. Probably better to obtain a bench-mounted single stage press right from the start. Many of these are pretty inexpensive and will last you a lifetime.

A consideration for you. You will need to size/deprime spent cases, then prime, then charge, then seat a bullet for each loading. Anything that will make switching between dies easier/faster will be something you will grow to appreciate very quickly (grin). Also, you want your dies to be in the same position for each round, so you want to be able to reproducibly mount your die to the same depth each time. Screwing the sizing die into the press, sizing all of your brass, then unscrewing the sizing die and screwing in the seating die isn't a big deal, but it isn't the most efficient. Depending on what you are willing to spend on a press, a turret press will allow you to leave your dies mounted, saving the swapping step. Alternatively, presses like the Forster Co-Ax or the Frankford Arsenal M-Press have a neat design that allows you to swap out dies in seconds. Again, a single stage bench-mounted press is all you need, but I recommend looking at some of these others if you MIGHT get further into reloading/handloading as they'll meet your needs now and into the future without having to buy something new as an upgrade later on...

 

[RankAmateur]

Ok. I'll throw this out there. I'm close to ATX if you want to meet up and talk reloading.

OP, this is exactly the quality of response and help you can expect from the folks in this group. Well done @usmcpmi ! I'll toss my hat in the ring too. I'm a bit south of Austin, but would be happy to meet up to talk as well.

 

[usmcpmi]

I just thought I would offer, since I'm currently loading 6 different 45/70 and 45/90 loads. Easy for me to show the process since it's already set up.

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[Axxe55]

lots of good advice in this thread, thank you all. One more quick question then I have lots to digest here. Are those handheld presses a gimmick or are they useful? I don't know if I'm sticking with this yet or not so I don't want to go straight to a big multi-stage unit but I'm not sure if handheld units are more toys than useful tools and I should at least go to a single stage bench mounted unit.

Thanks again.

THEY ARENOT A DIMMICK BUT ARE A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT TO USE THAN A BENCH MOUNTED PRESS I'D LOOK FOR A SINGLE STAGE PRESS KIT THAT HAS MOST OF ALL THE ITEMS NEEDED FOR RELOADING LEE PRECISION HAS SOME REALLY GREAT EQUIPMENT AT A DECENT PRICEhttps://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013004049?pid=121744

 

[benenglish]

I have no idea what the differences are between all these dozens of powders, should I care that much which powder I buy?

Oh, yes. Very much so. There's good advice up-thread.

Trail boss is engineered ...
It dont get easier than that

Trail Boss is wonderful. I love it. AFAIK, though, it's no longer made. Hodgdon's website has shown it out of stock for a very long time. I'm going to bust my butt to make my last 20 pounds last as long as possible.

When it comes to other low energy density powders, VV Tin Star was supposed to replace Trail Boss in the market but I've never even seen a jug of it. And SR 4759 hasn't been made in about a decade.

I'm guessing he'll be best served, as a beginner, with one of the 4895s. Preferably H4895 but IMR4895, AA2015, and pulldown surplus just marked "4895" are all about as useful. For reduced loads, I've had substantial experience with H4895 and tend to recommend it for this case.

Between Hodgdon online data and (preferably older) Lyman manuals, he should be able to make good initial selections.

 

[usmcpmi]

Lately, 5744 has been my go to powder...

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[usmcpmi]

Well...I mean besides 2f...

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[Havok1]

lots of good advice in this thread, thank you all. One more quick question then I have lots to digest here. Are those handheld presses a gimmick or are they useful? I don't know if I'm sticking with this yet or not so I don't want to go straight to a big multi-stage unit but I'm not sure if handheld units are more toys than useful tools and I should at least go to a single stage bench mounted unit.

Thanks again.

progressive presses are nice but not always necessary. If this is all you’re loading I’d just get a good single stage setup and stick with that.

 

[Tnhawk]

progressive presses are nice but not always necessary. If this is all you’re loading I’d just get a good single stage setup and stick with that.

I have a Dillon progressive press but it sits unused as my 40+ year old RCBS single stage gets the use.

 

[t-astragal]

Progressive with a case feeder is what I run. 500-700 rounds per hour. Freaking awesome. If your time is free it doesn’t matter though.


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