Army Airborne: Later model T11 chutes versus T10’s

[Wudidiz]

I’m looking for clarification from some of you younger former Airborne troops. Back in 1965-68 Army, we jumped T10 round chutes out of C-130’s (side exits). I read that the T10 mains have been replaced with T11 “crucible shaped” parachutes that have a descent rate of 19 ft/sec (versus 23 ft/sec of the T10). The article that I read also stated that the T11 was steerless. We could “steer” the T10 somewhat with riser pull. You can’t steer the new T11’s at all?

 

[toddnjoyce]

It less that it’s completely non-steerable, it’s more that steerable implies the ability to navigate under canopy in today’s lexicon. The T-11 doesn’t enable that.

Here’s a good C&GSC paper on it.

https://dair.nps.edu/bitstream/123456789/2195/1/NPS-AM-17-032.pdf

 

[Wudidiz]

It less that it’s completely non-steerable, it’s more that steerable implies the ability to navigate under canopy in today’s lexicon. The T-11 doesn’t enable that.

Here’s a good C&GSC paper on it.

https://dair.nps.edu/bitstream/123456789/2195/1/NPS-AM-17-032.pdf

Thanks. That was an interesting read. The doc stated “Putting the ability to maneuver a parachute during mass tactical jumps into the hands of inexperienced paratroopers significantly increases the risk of injury to paratroopers.“ I agree and can attest to that from personal experience. I guess from 1250’, most DZ’s will keep you in bounds. Although there were a few times.

 

[lightflyer1]

We jumped with the T-10's and MC1-1B/E chutes at Ft Bragg. The MC1's were steerable. I never noticed too much issue with problems while dropping. More so with proper management of staging paratroops going out the door at the proper interval. I got tangled twice this way and fell to the ground before my reserve opened. They weren't nearly so steerable as the modern rectangular chutes. Now those can fly!

 

[Wudidiz]

We jumped with the T-10's and MC1-1B/E chutes at Ft Bragg. The MC1's were steerable. I never noticed too much issue with problems while dropping. More so with proper management of staging paratroops going out the door at the proper interval. I got tangled twice this way and fell to the ground before my reserve opened. They weren't nearly so steerable as the modern rectangular chutes. Now those can fly!

When I rotated out and back in the world, I got to jump a Para Commander with the 2 toggles. Awesome experience. Jumped those several times in Oklahoma but never got to try a square. Too old now.

 

[lightflyer1]

I still jump sometimes when there is an opportunity. Took my wife on a tandem jump over Hoover Dam.

 

[Bozz10mm]

My last jump was in December of 1985. T-10s were still the standard then, with MC-1 just getting in to the system. In fact, the only MC-1s our unit had were modified in house from T-10s, not actual government issue. This is the first I've heard of T-11s.

 

[lightflyer1]

We had them when I was in 77 to 81.

 

[Bozz10mm]

After watching this video, I see packing procedures have changed a bit since my rigging days. Well, hell, the whole parachute has changed. I'm glad to see they now limit the number of chutes packed to 15 a day. When I was observing the riggers at Ft. Bragg in the early 70s, they had a "25 and go" policy. Pack 25 chutes and you were off the rest of the day. Some of them left at noon. But it was appalling to watch them completely disregard text book procedures and basically just half ass throw them in the deployment bag.

How Army riggers pack 75,000 parachutes a year at Airborne School

This team of Army riggers packs and inspects each parachute used during live jumps at Airborne School.

www.insider.com

 

[lightflyer1]

I went to the rigging shack a few times for shake out duty. Seemed okay but I tried not to think about it too much. Jumping seemed a less risk than some of the other things we played with.

 

[Wudidiz]

After watching this video, I see packing procedures have changed a bit since my rigging days. Well, hell, the whole parachute has changed. I'm glad to see they now limit the number of chutes packed to 15 a day. When I was observing the riggers at Ft. Bragg in the early 70s, they had a "25 and go" policy. Pack 25 chutes and you were off the rest of the day. Some of them left at noon. But it was appalling to watch them completely disregard text book procedures and basically just half ass throw them in the deployment bag.

How Army riggers pack 75,000 parachutes a year at Airborne School

This team of Army riggers packs and inspects each parachute used during live jumps at Airborne School.

www.insider.com

Well…………that might explain a few ” Oh Shit!” moments that I had in the 60’s.

 

[claymore504]

We jumped the T10 my entire time with the 82nd (2/504) 1998 - 2000. We could pull a slip and go in a direction a little, but I would not say they were able to be steered. I remember the jumpmasters got to jump chutes with toggles. Interesting they went to chutes that can't be controlled at all. There was guys when I jumped that would "sky shark" people sometimes.

We mainly jumped the C-130 and 141. Some guys got to jump the CH-47, but I never got a chance. My last jump was my first jump in a C17.

 

[Wudidiz]

I read that the government decided that the T10 “steerability” caused more negative events than positive, and that, from 1250’, they should land in the DZ if the exits are correctly spaced. I think that’s bullshit. There were a few times that I would have missed the DZ if it wasn’t for climbing up those T10 risers. Also, with the 1st SFG on Okinawa, there was an old Japanese runway right in the middle of the Yomitan DZ. I almost landed in the middle of it one day due to a wind shift. Again, manipulating those risers helped shorten my lateral drift and miss the concrete. I don’t think I would be a fan of these T11’s.

 

[Bozz10mm]

When the 2nd Rgr Battalion parachuted into Grenada, their jump altitude was 500 ft AGL. They didn't wear reserve chutes either. A steerable parachute would be useless under those conditions.

Correction: 2nd Ranger Battalion

 

[Wudidiz]

When the 3rd Rgr Battalion parachuted into Grenada, their jump altitude was 500 ft AGL. They didn't wear reserve chutes either. A steerable parachute would be useless under those conditions.

500 AGL……..yup

 

[lightflyer1]

Combat jump altitude from what I remember.

 

[claymore504]

If I remember correctly we jumped at 800 with the 82nd.

 

[lightflyer1]

I have jumped low and high from different aircraft and times. Weekends when we had free jumps we sometimes got up to 4k feet in Hueys/Chinooks. During military op jumps we were always low and if you stood in/by the door it looked near treetop level (but wasn't). Low enough that you wanted your reserve out quickly if something went wrong.

 

[Bozz10mm]

I have jumped low and high from different aircraft and times. Weekends when we had free jumps we sometimes got up to 4k feet in Hueys/Chinooks. During military op jumps we were always low and if you stood in/by the door it looked near treetop level (but wasn't). Low enough that you wanted your reserve out quickly if something went wrong.

IIRC, training jumps were at 1000 ft AGL from fixed wing aircraft and 1250 AGL from rotary wing aircraft. The highest we ever went on a fun jump was 5280 ft. from a Huey. Dang near ended up in power lines on that one. LOL, none of us actually made it to the DZ. A little miscalculation by the jump master.

 

[lightflyer1]

When I went to Jungle Warfare School in Panama, we jumped in as was our custom (jump in, jump out). Never saw the 12 second DZ from the C-141. Landed in triple canopy jungle. 14 C-141's in staggered trail for the jump. Multiple passes as the 14 planes flew large circles. They sure roiled the air if you didn't jump early. Needed Heli's to get some people and chutes out. Great Heli pilots were there then (1978/9?)! Used to love to watch heavy drops/live fires and planes taking off from Pope AFB and Ft. Bragg.