Any Bushmaster experts???

[Texan2]

I'm not up on the Bushmaster AR line.

What's the difference between their A3 16 inch carbine and the A3 16 inch "shorty" version?

Just curious....

 

[AusTex]

That probably means the SHORTY a2 syle buttstock vs the carbine adjustable 4 - 6 position m4 style butt stock.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

That's exactly what it is, like Austex said. One thing to beware of is, if the "shorty" stock is basically the same length of pull as an A2 stock, then it is way too long especially for a carbine, and especially if wearing a vest/plates, etc. For a shorty full stock, I'd go with a Sully stock or maybe an RRA "entry" stock (don't have any experience with those so take it with a grain) as they are about the same length as an m4 stock ~1-2 notches from collapsed.

Not really a Bushmaster expert but, if you are looking for a duty gun, I'd go with a S&W over a bushmaster personally as they have a bit better attention detail and a few more check marks on "the chart". They apparently hold up much better under intensive carbine training classes, whereas it's apparently not that uncommon for shrubmasters to fail under short term high round count type of stuff. I've read several AAR's from M4C and I think Arfcom of documented accounts from bushies failing. There are plenty of other great brands as well like LMT, BCM (Bravo Company), Colt, etc. The bushies can work just fine with a few minor upgrades, like a good quality aftermarket bolt, d-fender/crane extractor o-ring, and some other little things.

 

[AusTex]

Ok well now im going to go more in depth!

I have a bushmaster 16car heavy hbar bbl a3 with m4 adjustable stock. I purchased this gun on my 18th birthday.. it is my ranch gun and goto weapon. It has at least 8000 rounds .223 through it.. It is 1/9 twist and it will shoot the heck out of ANYTHING i put in it.. My hand loads from 36 jhps up to 69grn match kings.. A hot load with a nosler/hrndy amax or ballistic tip around 40-55 grns are devastating on just about anything. Out of the 8000 rounds probably 6k of them have been suppressed. I have another 1000 .22 round through a ceiner kit. I can shoot a golf ball open sights at 50-75 yards and just roll it down the range with the .22 kit. This gun has been abused... in ways I don't want to list really.. and it has always cleaned up and fired, the only jams I have had were user error/bad ammo. \

I use a accu-wedge with this rifle b/c it is considered MIL-SPEC and therefore is a little lose in areas that some other manufacturers are not, but this is what i contribute to the gun just continuing to work even when dirty, rusty, hot or cold..

Now I bring all this up and I know some have had different experiences however this gun is just my work horse and i trust it to fire every time. I have used all types of ar's and .223 platform semi auto guns of all makes. From my personal experience this gun has been the most forgiving(user friendly.) My other ar-15's sometimes wont shoot wolf or cheap ammo, wont stabilize certain rounds, don't like aftermarket cheap clips, etc .. My bushmaster has just been hassle free and has never required fine tuning or adjustments as some of the others I own or have shot.

The HBAR barrels are not light at all... but they sure shoot and hold up well .

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Texan2]

I was looking at the Bushmaster as a duty gun due to the good price GTs had...ironically the other gun I considered is the MP15x. I have heard good stuff about the S&W as well....

 

[thopkins22]

If I were purchasing a gun for duty and was stuck with those two options, the S&W would win hands down.

If you do buy the Bushmaster it's not the end of the world...just read this. "Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!" - M4Carbine.net Forums Note the first post contains the aforementioned "chart."

 

[TheDan]

My first AR was a Bushmaster. My second was a Stag.... I sold the Bushy. I don't think Bushmaster is really a "lesser" AR, but the fit and finish on the Stag was definitely better. Just my

 

[Texan2]

My agency owns a number of Bushmasters, the local Sheriff's Department here carries Bushmasters, Texas DPS (after exhaustive testing) carries Bushmasters...so do lots of other LE agencies.
It would be tough to convince me that Bushmasters are poor guns. That having been said I like the S&W better.

 

[thopkins22]

My agency owns a number of Bushmasters, the local Sheriff's Department here carries Bushmasters, Texas DPS (after exhaustive testing) carries Bushmasters...so do lots of other LE agencies.
It would be tough to convince me that Bushmasters are poor guns. That having been said I like the S&W better.

They aren't poor guns...but they aren't of the same quality as other similarly priced options. The receiver extensions will be significantly weaker(but still quite strong.) The bolt may last for 20,000 rounds or it may last for 5...we don't know because they aren't individually tested. The castle nut will not be staked, and the gas key on the carrier may be staked well...unless it's staked poorly or not at all. Some of their rifles have been known to have .223 chambers despite being marked 5.56 as well.

Are most of these issues showstoppers? No, as the link I provided earlier proved they're easy to deal with. But when there are so many other companies doing things better from the get go, I guess I don't get bypassing better rifles in favor of a Bushmaster.

I'm not impressed by which agencies are using any particular gun. A number of things come into play...does the contract stipulate individual testing, shot peening, or whatever? Does the contract ignore those things and the manufacturers decide to do it anyway as having big name contracts is worth it for the rest of their business? Or was the contract written by someone who has no clue and purchased based on pricing and what the magazines he's looking at say?

So we're left with what the DOD considers to be the bare minimum level of quality for a fighting rifle...if a company can't meet or surpass a BASELINE, then I'm not interested in them. Are all of these features important to me? No, I don't care about park under the FSB, double shielded handguards, I'm flexible about straight vs. tapered pins and so forth...so if I buy a gun without things like that I expect either to either see the price drop or a better part than the TDP stipulates.

 

[Texan2]

I wasnt trying to impress you by stating who uses a particular brand...just saying there are tens of thousands in LE hands being used everyday with no major news story saying officers are dying due to their poor rifles.
I know with TX DPS the contract is a combo of quality and testing along with price.
I do not hold myself out to be an AR expert, merely stating that the Bushmasters I have seen in the hands of lots of LE agencies worked well for them. If there is a better gun for the same price, I agree that choosing the lesser gun wouldnt make sense. Like I said, I like the S&W.

It is similar to other threads I have heard that Glocks are junk yet there are millions of them in circulation that perform flawlessly. Most that bash a certain brand are spouting opinion rather than fact (that doesnt seem to be the case here). Sounds like you guys know your ARs though. I really am learning a lot about what to look for.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Yeah, Bushmasters definitely aren't poor quality AR's. I would reserve the term poor (in reference to AR's) for the Century Arms, Vulcan, Hesse, and maybe a couple other manufacturers that you don't see too often. Worst case on a Bushmaster, replace the bolt with a known good brand (LMT, BCM, etc), and maybe do a couple little things like staking the castle nut, and it will take care of any little deficiencies they might have. I know a lot of departments do use them, though since some of the problem areas like the bolt are considered a wear item anyways, I'm sure they have regular replacement intervals (maybe every 5-8krds? who knows) so it's probably never an issue. I still think for the negligible price difference, the Smith is a nicer gun overall.

Just FYI, I believe Smith is still doing the rebate deal where you get 5 free Magpul P-Mags with the purchase of one of their AR's. That's worth it IMO.

 

[AusTex]

This is off topic .. but my buddy shoots a century galani sporter 5.56.. he shoots steel with us at 500 yards open sights and he hits about %90 of the time.....he out shoots the shit out of any ar-15 out there unless it has a scope... However he has never been up against a ar-15 20" match style with a trained shooter

on topic... I stand firm that the bushmaster is a fine weapon.. I do agree that if the price is the same get the better option. However if you get a big leo price break on bushmaster I would pick it up. Especially if the price break would allow you to upgrade the problem areas and also pick up some extra mags, etc.

JCM

 

[thopkins22]

I wasnt trying to impress you by stating who uses a particular brand...just saying there are tens of thousands in LE hands being used everyday with no major news story saying officers are dying due to their poor rifles.

And I wasn't trying to poopoo everything Bushmaster. I just want to make sure that if you go that route you realize what parts are not top notch and that most of them are relatively easy fixes.

 

[ROGER4314]

I've been shooting a heap of AR-15's of all brands and styles for a lot of years and I can't find a dimes worth of difference in them. I shoot mostly 20" A2 HBar and shoot Expert scores with an occasional Master score from NRA positions at 200 yards.

The Bushmaster CMP rifle that some of the guys have kicked around provided the best scores of my match career using 69 grain Sierra Match King bullets in a 1:8 twist. It's an A2 Hbar. I got within a couple of points of the Bushmaster scores with a Colt A2 and a ragged out and absolutely stock Olympic A2 that I picked up used for $650 at a gun show. That Olympic was a real sleeper! It looked bad and shot great!

So please tell me......... Where is all this difference in quality and performance? Virtually any properly built and maintained A2 HBar will shoot great scores if you give it a chance. Match parts, float tubes and special fitting will pick up a few more points but the name on the lower housing means nothing but bragging rights.

Incidentally, I maintain my own rifles and have NEVER had a malfunction in a match.

Flash