Wanting to start a TX OUTDOOR range, need help and advice!

[matt2k12]

As someone who spent a lot of years doing business consulting for both mature and startup companies I will tell you there are a lot of challenges to what you want to do.

1) Land use plan: You need a lot of land to run a range and a lot more if you want to shoot at long distances. In addition you cannot just build a berm and start banging away. The direction you shoot most likely bullets can cross over someones land. You are going to need some permission for this to happen, they OWN the space above their land and unless you range is completely indoors then you need some kind of an agreement.

2) Financial plan: I saw you said you have what you need and are now going into the building phase. Do you have a business cost and pro forma model. If not then you will never get this off the ground. You need to run the numbers before you do anything, that will tell you whether or not this is a viable business or a charity.

3) Operations plan: How will this operate, daily, weekly, open/closed, how many lanes, where is the Opns shack, will it be a store or just a check in/check out with only a few things for sale like targets, ear protection etc or will it be a full service shop with other gear offered. How does all this operate? which brings us to...

4) Personnel plan: How many folks to run this based upon your ops plan. Full time and part time, cost and benefits. What happens when 2 people call in sick, do you have to shut down or ???

5) Liability exposure: I STRONGLY suggest you contact a company and get some quotes on insurance costs, I think you will be shocked. You would be wise to contact a lawyer now about liability exposure, asset protection (yours) and how you protect yourself in the event of a legal challenge.

I am just skimming the surface, but you have a solid 90 days of work ahead of you before you decide upon the height of the berm. I have written many business plans, some as long as 300+ pages for both myself and my clients. What the plan will tell you is will it make money and what problems I might encounter. If you don't build a plan you will most likely fail even if you are able to get it off the ground.

I wish you luck and hope you are successful...

Thank you for the informative post. I would like to go point by point to address your concerns.

1) I am looking at between 10-15 Acres. I have calculated that the pistol range will occupy about 3.5 acres and the rifle ranges up to 12 acres. I have land available locally, out in the country, at around 5500 an acre. 7500 max. I have never heard of people owning the space above their land but I will have to look into that. I assumed it was public space hence why planes can fly over properties.

2) Financial plan - I have a spreadsheet and a financial plan. I am a commercial construction project manager for my day job. I can whip out a spreadsheet with formulas in no time at all. I am experienced in multifaceted projects with many different types of costs. I have a cost model, a revenue model, and a profit model. Also a start up cost model.

3) Operations plan - this is where I go with what i know which is what everyone else here locally knows and that is the range in the next county over. They have always had a low overhead operation and it has worked out fine. I remember before they had a key card reader at the gate everyone just had the combo to the gate padlock. My operations plan is to be open during daylight hours to the public 7 days a week with maybe 1 weekend a month off for repairs and maintenance and clean up.

4) Personnel plan - Like I said previously, I only go from what I know, and what I know is already a low cost, low overhead plan. It has been working for the other range, which I am a member, for decades. Now in the boom they have hired some help on weekends but the weekdays there is not a single worker on the property. So my personnel needs would be minimal. I plan to contract out things like mowing grass, misc. construction, etc. I have numbers in my operating costs for these tasks.

5) Liability - I am already in contracts with insurance brokers. The broker I spoke with the most said the aspects of my plan I mentioned such as CCTV, waivers at the gate, security cameras, and free/discounts for LEO are all positive in underwriters eyes. Also as far as asset protection, there are some options. For instance, create 3 LLCs, one owns the land, one operates the range, and another is a holding company for profits. None of my personal assets would be exposed and the range is split up into 3 different entities with only the operational entity being liable for any wrongs at the range. Then the assets in question are like the software and security system.

Please don't misunderstand my level of competence. I know it takes work. It takes investigation. Research. Legwork. Not to mention capital. Did I mention I have zero capital? Haha. Its true. But I think capital could be raised in exchange for memberships and discounts. A lot of people want a place to shoot out here thats close by and not a county over. A $10k donation is nothing for an oil company. When I started discussing the height of the berm I was discussing general construction techniques, as this affects cost, which affects the initial investment in the range. The general numbers are identified, I was asking for input on construction designs to narrow down the cost and get into the details. I have estimating software that believe it or not will tell me how much that berm will cost at 8' vs 10'.

Thank you for your response and any follow up to my points is greatly appreciated. I am welcoming all advice. I want an honest discussion with no surprises coming my way in the future (there will always be surprises, but I want as few as possible).

 

[matt2k12]

After working at a manned outdoor range, one question that pops up with an unmanned range is...
How do folks change targets, meaning go down range without someone else handling guns behind them or shooting behind them?
Also, what are you in visioning for target holders? How do they get repaired/replaced?
From my experience, people will purposely shoot anything and everything except the targets just to see what will happen.

If you read my response above, you can see that your experience is not typical for my area. Generally when shooting rifles we all wait till the other guy is done and then we all go down to the targets at the same time. Kinda the buddy/honor system. No one has ever been there telling us when to go/no go. I would plan on banning for life anyone that crossed this system. Zero tolerance.

Lastly, for the target boards, I would do metal pipe frames with plywood or particle board for stapling targets to down range. An economical alternative is PVC, especially with a fabrication setup on site I could do repairs 1 day a week or month. The metal pipe would last longer though. PVC might be too fun to shoot at....

 

[macshooter]

I'll throw something out there that probably no one else will, but I don't know how practical it would be for your purposes. I have some experience planning army ranges. Once you see how the army shoots on it's ranges, it really puts what civilian ranges have to offer to shame (yah no shit you say, they have money). Anyway, I've always thought it would be awesome if there was civy range that was put together like some of the army ranges. Not a full 20-30 lanes, but maybe 4-6 of Modified Record Fire, with pop up targets out to 300m, or something like that. And then a range with some mixed poppers and some movers on tracks to practice leading. I'd pay good money to shoot at a range like that. You can't do it though unless you're in a green suit.

I second the idea of going to a range conference. The guys in the booths have all kinds of stuff you might want, but they are used to contracts funded with govt dollars, so the stuff is expensive. But it's not very complicated. I can't imagine it would be that hard to build a track for a mover, put 4 foot of cinderblock in front of it, and a berm it up with the track on the other side of the wall, install a radio controlled electric motor pulling a chain like a garage door. The hardest part would be power out to targets. And you'd probably want a tower. I don't think any of it would be hard to build if you know a guy who's good at welding/construction. But it will CRAZY expensive if you buy it from vendors used to bilking the Army...

If you want some range ideas check out Army Range Manual TC 25-8. Also for range safety (knowing how to safely lay out a range and conduct live fire exercises) check out DA-PAM 385-63. (ignore everything but small arms) If you lay out a range according to that, you've got a safe range so far as the army is concerned. There's a 1:1,000,000 chance a round or a piece of it will leave the area inside the surface danger zone, and people are safe so long as they stay out of the SDZ. That's not a cure for stupid, but it is pretty good protection against some one trying to say that you have an unsafe range.

Maybe way too much for your needs, but maybe there are some good ideas in there you can use. Certainly interesting if you like to think about ranges and how to set them up.

Used to live in Gardendale, and go shoot out in the oil patch near there, so I know the area/what you are talking about. Just remember all that money that's there now goes away someday. Downtown Midland was full of empty buildings for year and years...

I wouldn't move back there for a million bucks! Good luck!

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Yes you own the air space above your property, it goes up like a pyramid, not sure how far, forgot as it was more than I was concerned with. Not far but certainly far enough that stray shots would be a major issue. Your exposure here is unbelievable. A dead cow or worse a human as a result of a stray, someone would own you and yours. But even if you did not own the airspace, a bullet coming down on someones property would be a game changer in your life...and all it would take is some anti gun judge to do it.

For my computer company I had to carry a policy in the MILLIONS and I have the same for the manuf company I own now...

I wish you success and keep us posted I would like to stop in and do some shooting...

 

[matt2k12]

Any thoughts on this master range layout? Is the pistol range DOA?

Black = Parking / Future Club Area
Blue = Pistol Range
Green = Silhouette / Motorized Range
Yellow/White = Rifle Range
Red = Berms

Please provide your thoughts and feedback from experience.

 

[macshooter]

See Table 4-12 on page 37 of DA-PAM 385-63. Assuming worst case, 50 cal ammo, distance X (maximum distance a projectile or fragment will travel) is 6100-6500 meters. That's over six kilometers. (I know that seems like a lot, but that is based on actual army munitions testing, where there is a one in a million chance a projectile or fragment will exit that area = acceptable risk for the army)

Berms will mitigate the danger to surrounding roads and equipment/facilities to some extent, but can't stop some jackass from pointing a rifle at 45 degrees and pulling the trigger. That is why EVERYTHING has to stay outside the SDZ for it to meet Army standards for safety. I don't know the scale of that photo, but I'm guessing (having spent a LOT of time looking at aerial photos) it's about 1:5000. You have roads and equipment in the area that are definitely inside the SDZ for 50 cal, and 7.62 (dist X = ~4500m) That would not be a safe range so far as the army is concerned. I know civilian ranges are not held to that standard, but a bullet CAN go over the berm, and hit something within 4-6.5 km away depending on the caliber, and you will be responsible.

Not sure any of that is really helpful to you, but it's what I know from my experience.

An SDZ is basically like a slice of pie (or range "fan") . If you draw a buffer (circle) at 'distance X' for a given munition, (found in the DA-PAM by caliber and type) you'll get a rough idea of the size of the surface danger zone (nothing should be inside that area, not roads or buildings or equipment or people). Use the google line tool and click on the firing position, then run that line out to 6.5km, and see what's all inside that area. (the width of the "slice" or fan is determined by your left and right firing limits from each firing position) That's good enough for estimates to see where a range will fit if you are approximating using the army standards. Probably not many civilian ranges are build that way. In that case the higher the berms the better...

If there's no equipment (looks like pump jacks in the area = not good) you could work out a communications arrangement with the owners of the adjacent land to call ahead before they use the roads near the range. But if they have equipment in the area sooner or later it's going to take a bullet. I would be looking for a better piece of land with NOTHING behind the range for a damn long ways.

 

[matt2k12]

For reference here is our current civilian range in the next county over:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Midl...y+Road+160,+Midland,+TX&radius=15000&t=h&z=12

According to the NRA range source book you can properly design a range to contain 99.999999999% of all bullets. The source book also provides bullet trajectories at their max efficiency ie- 45* or whatever. There is however no protection from Pablo blowing a hole in the canopy.

I am going to try and adopt your idea of motorized targets. I am mostly concerned with the location of the pistol range in relation to the silhouette / future motorized range, blue and green respectively. I might have some tweaking to do on the layout there but I am mostly wondering about functionality and safety.

Military is obviously next level shit.

 

[macshooter]

Military range planning is same as civilian in that the bullets still travel the same distances. That's the important thing to look at seriously. I roughly geo-referenced your range and did some mock up range fans for 50cal and 9mm (6500m and 1800m respectively)

Your pistol range is a no-go my friend. I-20 is squarely inside the 1800m fan. You'll have to re-orient that range. Also you've got a lot of pump jacks and shit inside the rifle range fan, and roads... (and what looks like a quarry right on the other side of the road (!) I don't think this is the piece of land you are looking for. You need more space.

 

[matt2k12]

Thanks for the info and taking the time to do the bullet fans. This is the best available site so I can't toss it out so soon. I could re-organize or just shoot to the north on some 400 max ranges. Another possibility is baffling to extremes to reduce those bullet fans. You will never lose the liability of a wacko walking out into the middle of the range and firing towards I 20 but with a hotline and 24 hr surveillance, baffles, and proper design, I plan on a self policing system of members reporting bad behavior and a zero tolerance policy resulting in a lifetime ban for the wackos.

 

[macshooter]

Closer in. Your screen grab from google wouldn't line up exactly with the imagery I'm using, even though I rotated it tried to stretch it into shape, but it won't go exactly. Different coordinate systems or something, but it's pretty close. (good enough for a gun forum anyway)

I can see why you'd want a range right off of I-20 though.

 

[macshooter]

Thanks for the info and taking the time to do the bullet fans. This is the best available site so I can't toss it out so soon. I could re-organize or just shoot to the north on some 400 max ranges. Another possibility is baffling to extremes to reduce those bullet fans. You will never lose the liability of a wacko walking out into the middle of the range and firing towards I 20 but with a hotline and 24 hr surveillance, baffles, and proper design, I plan on a self policing system of members reporting bad behavior and a zero tolerance policy resulting in a lifetime ban for the wackos.

Guess it all depends on the laws governing civilian ranges. If you build within that, then you're ok. It is a damn good location if you can make it work somehow. Just outside of town, right off the Hwy. Unfortunately I don't know shit about civilian range laws/regs, or even where to start digging to find them. I suspect the oil patch guys are gonna pitch a bitch about a range right in the middle of the patch though. (not the roughnecks, they'll probably love it, but the guys that own the land) I don't know how you can stop a wacko firing over the berms. The only real way to mitigate for that is DISTANCE, hence the SDZs. (the army is full of knuckle heads, they are very good at planning how to deal with knucklehead shit... but it still doesn't work all the time. You'd be amazed at how often people get shot or other bad shit happens on very safe ranges.)

 

[Younggun]

A thought to help mitigate risk. I've seen pics of firing lines where the shooters actually fire through a buried tunnel. Makes it almost impossible to fire over the berm without walking away for the shooting station and blasting in to the air.

Could be helpful on the rifle range but would be more difficult on a pistol range.

 

[TheDan]

Very interesting thread

Also as far as asset protection, there are some options. For instance, create 3 LLCs, one owns the land, one operates the range, and another is a holding company for profits.

Does the LLC shell game really work? Seems like you'd just wind up defending against 3 lawsuits instead of just one.

 

[macshooter]

BTW you are right about the silhouette/mover range being in conflict with the pistol range. Just form looking at it, the pistol range will be inside the range fan for the mover/silhouette range, but you can fix that with scheduling. Run only one range at time. That's how the army shoe horns ranges in very tight spaces. Basically one range shuts down the others next to it while it's hot. Just make sure both aren't hot at the same time and your ok. That still doesn't solve the problem with pistol range pointing toward I-20 though.

 

[benenglish]

Another possibility is baffling to extremes to reduce those bullet fans.

Possible but expensive. This 200 meter range, for example, is very nice but I'd hate to guess what it cost to build.

 

[matt2k12]

Very interesting thread


Does the LLC shell game really work? Seems like you'd just wind up defending against 3 lawsuits instead of just one.

Yes, the shell game works. If properly set up where ownership/assets are shielded/hidden. The actual physical land would be owned by a separate company and its assets would be legally separated from the operating company of the range. And the profits are immediately sent to another holding company. So the only value in suing the range is the insurance policy and possibly seizing the operating equipment (kiosk, security system, etc - ie- very few real assets). They can only legally sue the operating company that runs the range. That is the only entity that will stand up in court. The "land", per se, didn't do anything. Its inert, it just exists. And the company that holds the profits isn't responsible either, it has no decision making or operational authority over the range.

The other thing is, you establish liability of the shooters via waivers and acceptance notes of liability upon entering the range. The best way to mitigate risk is to establish that each shooter is responsible for their bullets and that they will be held liable in a court of law. The range insurance policy is really a fallback for when the shooter's "liability" breaks down. If the range is found liable, they pony up their $1m insurance policies. BTW a $1m policy is only 3k a year in premiums.

 

[matt2k12]

Possible but expensive. This 200 meter range, for example, is very nice but I'd hate to guess what it cost to build.

I'm going to have to look at some baffles at the firing line to close that sight window like in the picture shown.

For instance, you paint a red line on the concrete and say "No Shooting Beyond This Point".

Then you have a baffle on your awning that overhangs the firing line, like 10 or 20 yards past the firing line, and also hangs down to basically right over the shooter's horizon.

Thanks for the interest guys. I am going to look at a few range designs and play with my layout some more today. I have a lot of "real work" to do today though so it may not be until this evening or tomorrow that I get around to posting again.

 

[Younggun]

Search for "chandlers gun range" and look at some work they have recently had to do over a bunch of BS brought on by a guy wanting to sell some adjacent land.

It was a range owners nightmare. Buyer wanted range shut down or would back out. The modifications made are insane. Just an idea of things you might have to deal with.

Read up on their FB page if you have time.

 

[matt2k12]

Why is this stuff so fun and addicting? I will never get any real work done. Check this out:



Its a quick/crude diagram I made for some basic firing line baffling.

For every double in shooting distance, the distance between the shooter/firing line and overhang baffle doubles. The bottom of the baffle is a constant 7' or 8' or so for all ranges so your veiw of blue skies under the canopy is limited. Also there is a 10' baffle on top of every 20' berm with the exception of a 20' baffle on top of the 20' tall but very small 600 yd berm (only 5 shooting lanes). Also I would like the baffle hanging on hinges so not only the baffle material but also the rotation of the hinged baffle helps to reduce/deflect the potential bullet fan.

 

[matt2k12]

Well according to another sketch a 40 yard overhang/baffle isn't economical or logical (this would only pertain to the 600 yd range). It would be better to put up a free standing baffle 40 yards down range, or two, one at 20 and one at 40, in addition to a baffle on the awning at 10 yards (which is economical). A 40 yard long awning is actually closer to a building with lots of wind potential for lift, shear, etc. The structure would have to be way too strong to, again, be economical. I dont plan on spending 100k on a "building" for a 5 lane 600 yd range.

So I guess the plan would be to build 1 or 2 awning types in addition to a few baffles downrange. Awning A with a 10 yard baffle (50-150 yd ranges) Awning B with a 20 yard baffle (150-300yd ranges) then Awning A or B with free standing baffles 20 and 40 yards down range (300-600 yd ranges).

Anyone ever seen anything like this put into practice?