Wanting to start a TX OUTDOOR range, need help and advice!

[matt2k12]

Hello all,

This may be my first post, I forget. I was doing a google search about Texas gun ranges and found out I had already registered at this website when it came up in the search results.

I will cut to the chase. There is a huge opportunity in my area for an outdoor range. I wanted to get one started but needed to know... where to start!

First I have a few questions:

1 - Are new outdoor gun ranges even getting opened up nowdays?
2 - Is the EPA involved in regulating, inspections, permitting, etc?
3 - Is TCEQ involved in regulating, inspections, permitting, etc?
4 - Where can I find a detailed breakdown of regulations for Texas gun ranges?
5 - Where can I find a detailed "How To" for opening an outdoor range in Texas?
6 - What are the insurance requirements?
7 - Who do I report to? Who is the regulating governmental authority?
8 - Is a range officer required or any other full/part time staff required?

Since I know so little, I just wanted to throw out my ideas and let you guys pick them apart and offer advice.

I have an idea for a low overhead outdoor facility with both a keycard and credit card reader at the main electric gate. Members get key cards, guests pay via CC at the gate. I would have several payment tiers for guests: daily, weekly, and monthly rates. I would post signs at the gate stating my disclaimers, warnings, required notices, etc as well as rules and other info for guests that would be included with a membership packet... a bunch of stuff at the main gate that basically says: "by swiping your card you agree to these terms, we are not liable, enter at your own risk, etc".

Once inside the facility fence, there is really nothing of value other than bench rests, target boards, piles of dirt, and metal canopies. This keeps thieves out because there is nothing to steal and no building to vandalize. I would keep it well lit and surveilled via multiple cameras, maybe with 24hr operating ability?

I want to have, of course, multiple ranges (pistol rifle shotgun, etc) from 25 yd up to 800 or 1k yds.

The only thing really standing in my way is a complete lack of the technical knowledge which is mostly govt regulations and insurance/overhead burdens.

If anyone has any info about opening up a public outdoor range please let me know what I don't know. I am coming here in the spirit of cooperation in an attempt to gain knowledge. Please treat me with respect and dignity. I am a fellow gun enthusiast trying to make a great place to shoot for my local community.

 

[matt2k12]

Wanted to follow up and say I don't know the benefit/burden of a public vs private, club vs range equation, much less the technical differences between the 4.

 

[benenglish]

Please treat me with respect and dignity.

I'll try.

Your concept is to build a low-overhead range that takes CCs (among many other descriptors) which means it would be public.

Members of the public are dopes. Left to their own devices, they'll shoot themselves, the facilities, other customers, and into the air so that the bullets fall bad places miles downrange. All of those things will put you out of business.

So my first bit of advice is that super-low-overhead shooting facilities generally only work when they're private, don't take credit cards at the gate, and vet their members as carefully as possible. They also don't generally make much money.

I addressed this point first for personal reasons; I had a conceptually similar (but completely different in execution) idea a while back and after much research, abandoned it.

Now, for generally useful information, I suggest you prepare yourself to read, read, read, and read some more. Start here: Shooting Range Services|Shooting Range Services

Good luck.

 

[Tejano Scott]

I'll try.

Your concept is to build a low-overhead range that takes CCs (among many other descriptors) which means it would be public.

Members of the public are dopes. Left to their own devices, they'll shoot themselves, the facilities, other customers, and into the air so that the bullets fall bad places miles downrange. All of those things will put you out of business.

So my first bit of advice is that super-low-overhead shooting facilities generally only work when they're private, don't take credit cards at the gate, and vet their members as carefully as possible. They also don't generally make much money.

I addressed this point first for personal reasons; I had a conceptually similar (but completely different in execution) idea a while back and after much research, abandoned it.

Now, for generally useful information, I suggest you prepare yourself to read, read, read, and read some more. Start here: Shooting Range Services|Shooting Range Services

Good luck.

great advice

 

[matt2k12]

What was your research that led you to abandon the idea?

For a little background - I live in a west Texas area with a very high shooting / gun owning population. Right now the only outdoor range is a private gun club (which I am a member) in the next county over, on the far side of the county. My county/city is under-served greatly by this and many people simply never shoot their guns for a lack of places to shoot. I also have land available and lots of space out in the county.

Yes, the public are dopes. But right now the public is going out to random places in the county and shooting until they get run off by the sheriff. Don't ask how I know this. But its happening. A lot. There are dopes at private ranges too though. Look no further than the canopy over the shooting bench for bullet holes.

I am prepared to read, research, make contacts, etc. I come from the business world and am a big time DIYer to boot. I know how to dig down into regulations, legalese, paperwork, etc.

I appreciate, very much, you taking the time to respond to my inquiry. Is it worth the time to do the NRA range video for $375? Or am I better/equally served with freely available materials?

Thanks again and thanks in advance.

 

[Vaquero]

Sounds like Lubbock.

 

[matt2k12]

Sounds like Lubbock.

2 hours south....

 

[Vaquero]

2 hours south....

Then I may be close enough to help. Physically and materially.

 

[matt2k12]

Any help would be appreciated. Of course I would be looking for donations from companies and friends and family as well. Sponsored benches for life membership, that sort of deal.

 

[benenglish]

What was your research that led you to abandon the idea?

The numbers didn't work. At the highest possible rates of use, there could never have been enough customers to pay for the desired facilities. I was looking into a European/premium facilities/boutique model. They can pay for such things over there because shooting, where guns are restricted, becomes a play activity for the rich. If all your customers are rich, you can offer more. That model does not work in the U.S. except in a few select high-population density environments. Even then, it doesn't really work except as an add-on to a gun store.

I also have land available and lots of space out in the county.

That puts you way ahead at the start, compared to most people who simply have a vague idea that they'd like to have a shooting range.

Is it worth the time to do the NRA range video for $375? Or am I better/equally served with freely available materials?

At this stage, the $375 vid won't be worth it. Read the free stuff. If your initial research doesn't discourage you, you'll find yourself talking to people who install ranges (since they're trying to sell you something, they'll be anxious to show you how to overcome your problems) or going to the NRA Range Development Conference. The next one is coming up soon. If you're serious, if you research like crazy between now and then, and if you have a few thousand dollars to blow on the trip (in case you decide to give up after attending), there will be people at the Range Development Conference who know every answer to every question you can conceive. Actually finding the right people to ask is problematic but it's the best possible place to make the most contacts in the smallest amount of time.

A caution - Most people who are at your stage who go to the RDC will learn enough to understand that it's just too much work for too little potential return and will come home prepared to simply give up.

A note - You have people who just go shoot anywhere until they get run off. I get that. What makes you think people like that would actually use a legal range if it were available? As a part of my prior research, I talked to many, many people who wouldn't consider paying $100 a year to belong to a nice range nor would they pay a daily rate under any circumstances. If there's open land around that people can use, even illegally but without actually getting thrown in jail, they will drive by your gate and wonder why someone would go to the trouble to build a business around something they already do for free.

A thought - If there is an NRA RSO course near you, take it. For a reasonable price you'll learn a lot that bears directly on your questions.

I'll most likely be away from the keyboard until tomorrow and will check the thread again, then.

 

[matt2k12]

The numbers didn't work. At the highest possible rates of use, there could never have been enough customers to pay for the desired facilities. I was looking into a European/premium facilities/boutique model. They can pay for such things over there because shooting, where guns are restricted, becomes a play activity for the rich. If all your customers are rich, you can offer more. That model does not work in the U.S. except in a few select high-population density environments. Even then, it doesn't really work except as an add-on to a gun store.That puts you way ahead at the start, compared to most people who simply have a vague idea that they'd like to have a shooting range.At this stage, the $375 vid won't be worth it. Read the free stuff. If your initial research doesn't discourage you, you'll find yourself talking to people who install ranges (since they're trying to sell you something, they'll be anxious to show you how to overcome your problems) or going to the NRA Range Development Conference. The next one is coming up soon. If you're serious, if you research like crazy between now and then, and if you have a few thousand dollars to blow on the trip (in case you decide to give up after attending), there will be people at the Range Development Conference who know every answer to every question you can conceive. Actually finding the right people to ask is problematic but it's the best possible place to make the most contacts in the smallest amount of time.A caution - Most people who are at your stage who go to the RDC will learn enough to understand that it's just too much work for too little potential return and will come home prepared to simply give up.A note - You have people who just go shoot anywhere until they get run off. I get that. What makes you think people like that would actually use a legal range if it were available? As a part of my prior research, I talked to many, many people who wouldn't consider paying $100 a year to belong to a nice range nor would they pay a daily rate under any circumstances. If there's open land around that people can use, even illegally but without actually getting thrown in jail, they will drive by your gate and wonder why someone would go to the trouble to build a business around something they already do for free.A thought - If there is an NRA RSO course near you, take it. For a reasonable price you'll learn a lot that bears directly on your questions.I'll most likely be away from the keyboard until tomorrow and will check the thread again, then.

Thanks again for the lengthy and informative post.I too struggled with the ROI cost analysis. $ 200/yr IS too much for a lot of people, especially in other parts of the US. However, for Texans, and my location in particular I think I could at least recoup my start up costs and break even each year after that. I am located in the #1 economic zone in the US right now McDonalds starts out at $9-$12/hr. 3-4% unemployment. Its supposed to stay this way for at least 20 years. My model would be based on the modern iteration of 'micro-transactions'. A micro-membership fee at the gate, $10 day, $30 week, $50 month, $300 year. Those prices may seem steep but people here have money to blow. If cost was an obstacle I could cut down by half and still generate money. When I said there is land available, I meant for purchase. I don't own any yet. But there are good locations out in the county for sale and I could orient the range away from the city where there would be hundreds of square miles at a pop density of less than 1 person per mile down range. I would eventually like to upgrade facilities, add a club house, shop, etc. But I know logically I would need to start small and get interest generated. Thanks again for the responses. I have a feeling I will be spending more and more of my time on this forum asking questions.

 

[benenglish]

I got back early.

Those prices may seem steep...

Depending on location, those prices may be triple what the market will bear or half. However, things get interesting when you say

...people here have money to blow.

That changes things. Is your goal to have a long-range shooting facility? Or is your goal to have a business that involves shooting because you want to work on something in a field you enjoy? If the latter, then "people with money to blow" generally means in town, indoor range, mostly pistols, full-auto rentals, etc.

If, on the other (third?) hand, you just want to test your micro-transaction idea and keep your time investment low over the long haul, then keep going until you can decide for yourself if it's workable. There are a number of micro-small businesses where an individual has automated everything so that they never have to deal with employees. I've seen good examples in the printing industry, for example. However, I've never seen a case study or even heard of an attempt to pull it off in any business that has to do with shooting.

I could orient the range away from the city where there would be hundreds of square miles at a pop density of less than 1 person per mile down range.

You'll find your land purchase options more limited once you realize that ranges aren't just pointed "away from the city." To deal with their orientation relative to the sun, they're pointed roughly north.

Other orientations are possible. Shooting south can work but it's not as good. I even know one range that faces straight east; as long as no one wants to shoot in the morning, I suppose that would be fine.

But if you're looking for land, you look for both "shoot to the north" and "shoot away from population." Put those two factors together and suddenly options shrink, sometimes radically.

 

[TexasRedneck]

There's another consideration - insurance. When you say "unmanned", you scream "Liability Haven". A good friend owns a range - they've gone so far as to install cameras throughout the range because of frivolous lawsuits. What are you going to do when there's two folks on the range, and one accidentally shoots the other?

 

[matt2k12]

I got back early.Depending on location, those prices may be triple what the market will bear or half. However, things get interesting when you sayThat changes things. Is your goal to have a long-range shooting facility? Or is your goal to have a business that involves shooting because you want to work on something in a field you enjoy? If the latter, then "people with money to blow" generally means in town, indoor range, mostly pistols, full-auto rentals, etc.If, on the other (third?) hand, you just want to test your micro-transaction idea and keep your time investment low over the long haul, then keep going until you can decide for yourself if it's workable. There are a number of micro-small businesses where an individual has automated everything so that they never have to deal with employees. I've seen good examples in the printing industry, for example. However, I've never seen a case study or even heard of an attempt to pull it off in any business that has to do with shooting.You'll find your land purchase options more limited once you realize that ranges aren't just pointed "away from the city." To deal with their orientation relative to the sun, they're pointed roughly north. Other orientations are possible. Shooting south can work but it's not as good. I even know one range that faces straight east; as long as no one wants to shoot in the morning, I suppose that would be fine.But if you're looking for land, you look for both "shoot to the north" and "shoot away from population." Put those two factors together and suddenly options shrink, sometimes radically.

Thanks for another post. There are people with money to blow here. Its crazy. Also, there is no indoor range (yet - I'm supposed to be the general contractor - and its pistols only with classes and sales - something totally different). And so people have large arsenals of guns with no places to shoot them.My goal is not really a world class sniper training facility. Maybe that's something I could work to, but not out of the box. All I really need is 250 yards and a couple benches to start out and it would generate money. People would eat it up. A lot of younger people today don't like the commitment and hassle of a year long membership, for whatever valid or invalid reasons.Also I just wanted to mention that my current club or "association" in the town over is often without any employees during the day hours, though recently they had a couple employees working the gate and range during the weekend, maybe even went to full time during this boom? It probably needs some supervision during peak hours, and I would even want someone at the gate offering to take cash for a guest shooter.I am to the point where I know the business will be successful if managed and maintained correctly. I just need to know environmental regs, govt regs, all that. My county commissioner administration gave me the run around all over town today. No one knows anything about it. Kept transferring me and sending me to other people, including the sheriff, ATF, etc.... (ATF has no regulation unless you sell guns)As far as insurance and liability - I am estimating insurance at 25% of gross revenue (25k:100k), cameras everywhere, monthly security monitoring, and instilling a sense of Big Brother Is Watching You starting with large notices posted at the main gate. Maybe even put in some BS like "these cameras are monitored by the county sheriff office 24/7" lol..... They would probably even give me their logo. May even let them shoot for free or something.

 

[matt2k12]

Does anyone know what I would charge a CHL instructor for range fees for his course at my hypothetical facility? A lot of interest has been generated locally and a CHL instructor mentioned he was looking for a new place to do his course. What do you guys think is fair? Per year or per session or what, and what pricing tier? Or is it a no cost deal and just have the students all pay the normal daily/weekly/monthly rate? Would it be better to charge him for an all encompassing instructor fee that includes student access or to just have him tell each person that they pay for the range fee out of personal funds? What is typical? Thanks in advance.

 

[benenglish]

Does anyone know what I would charge a CHL instructor for range fees...

I don't know too many actual numbers to compare to but I can tell you about the last class I took. The range provided the range space and the air conditioned classroom with full basic accommodations (at least a screen for the instructor to project his ppt files) for $25 per student per day, paid to them by the instructor. The instructor seemed to feel that this rate was a bit high.

The students didn't actually deal with the range personnel at all.

So, that's one comparison point.

hth

 

[matt2k12]

Well I found out a lot of useful information from my county today. I went in and got introduced tot he county commissioner, county judge, and county sheriff! They gave me some info that outlines the main requirements. Basically our county has no regulations except those stipulated generally by the state of Texas, and a noise ordinance. Also a min insurance liability.

The only real requirements was that the noise ordinance was complied with, the range is constructed according to the NRA Range Source Book (found a copy online for free today), and that I carry a min 500k bodily liability and a 500k property liability. I am in the process of getting insurance quotes.

Now I am moving onto the planning and construction phase and I was wanting to ask you guys your input on what you have seen at ranges as far as materials, station design, construction layout, etc. that you might have noticed was particularly effective, useful, economical, eye catching, engaging, etc. For starters I am thinking of a dirt berm behind all target lanes (20' height required) and railroad ties as the sidewalls between lanes 2 or 3 ties deep and 8' minimum height required. For the shooting station I want platforms elevated above the ground by 6" with mostly concrete stations for a solid foundation for bench rest but also some prone stations with different ground surfaces such as grass, gravel, dirt, rocks, etc to practice on different surfaces. I would even like to cover some stations with a lattice and vines for a cool effect while shooting.

If you guys have seen anything like modular flooring, modular type stations, or anything that can be brought in and set up with minimal work and cost I am all ears. Also if you have seen any kind of special construction techniques as far as retaining walls, materials, etc, please let me know what you saw and what you thought of it.

I know this isn't rocket science, I'm just looking out there for all the alternatives and to get some idea of whats outside my very limited world view in the arena of shooting sports. Keep in mind its an outdoor range with pistol, rifle, and shotgun lanes.

Thanks for the responses and thanks in advance.

 

[Vaquero]

Shade. Now that we know your area. Shade!

8' high berm is gonna be tough. Erosion happens too. Better start at 10.

 

[Miloe]

After working at a manned outdoor range, one question that pops up with an unmanned range is...
How do folks change targets, meaning go down range without someone else handling guns behind them or shooting behind them?
Also, what are you in visioning for target holders? How do they get repaired/replaced?
From my experience, people will purposely shoot anything and everything except the targets just to see what will happen.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

As someone who spent a lot of years doing business consulting for both mature and startup companies I will tell you there are a lot of challenges to what you want to do.

1) Land use plan: You need a lot of land to run a range and a lot more if you want to shoot at long distances. In addition you cannot just build a berm and start banging away. The direction you shoot most likely bullets can cross over someones land. You are going to need some permission for this to happen, they OWN the space above their land and unless you range is completely indoors then you need some kind of an agreement.

2) Financial plan: I saw you said you have what you need and are now going into the building phase. Do you have a business cost and pro forma model. If not then you will never get this off the ground. You need to run the numbers before you do anything, that will tell you whether or not this is a viable business or a charity.

3) Operations plan: How will this operate, daily, weekly, open/closed, how many lanes, where is the Opns shack, will it be a store or just a check in/check out with only a few things for sale like targets, ear protection etc or will it be a full service shop with other gear offered. How does all this operate? which brings us to...

4) Personnel plan: How many folks to run this based upon your ops plan. Full time and part time, cost and benefits. What happens when 2 people call in sick, do you have to shut down or ???

5) Liability exposure: I STRONGLY suggest you contact a company and get some quotes on insurance costs, I think you will be shocked. You would be wise to contact a lawyer now about liability exposure, asset protection (yours) and how you protect yourself in the event of a legal challenge.

I am just skimming the surface, but you have a solid 90 days of work ahead of you before you decide upon the height of the berm. I have written many business plans, some as long as 300+ pages for both myself and my clients. What the plan will tell you is will it make money and what problems I might encounter. If you don't build a plan you will most likely fail even if you are able to get it off the ground.

I wish you luck and hope you are successful...