WINCHESTER MODEL OF 1894 RIFLE

[OLDVET]

I recently purchased a Winchester Model 1894 rifle from a guy on GunBroker. The serial number dates the rifle back to 1907. Like most rifles of this era, the finish is well worn, but the wood is still nice. It was used, but not abused.

Here is a problem I learned of once the rifle arrived. The barrel has rust in it. During an inspection by a gunsmith friend of mine, I was told the barrel has some rather significant rust toward the middle of the barrel. I contacted the previous owner in hopes of returning the rifle, but the owner said no way. All sales were final. I have made a few attempts to clear this barrel using Kroil Oil and Flitz. The condition has improved, but it is still there.

I have received several suggestions for improving the situation. One guy recommended plugging the barrel and filling it with Kroil Oil. He said to then let the rifle stand on its muzzle for a few days. After a few days I should drain the Kroil Oil and scrub the barrel with a bronze brush wrapped with fine steel wool. I am familiar with the benefits of using Kroil Oil to free rusted nuts on bolts, but the idea of leaving it in an old rifle barrel for days gives me pause.

I am sure there are a multitude of products on the market that claim to treat rust. Has anyone found anything that actually works without further damaging the lands and grooves in the barrel? I fully realize nothing will repair metal pitting where the rust has attacked the metal. I am looking for advice on how to remove as much of the built-up surface rust as possible. I do not plan to shoot this rifle regularly, but I would like to shoot it occasionally once I feel it is safe to do so.

 

[bmnloader]

Kroil is a good try. I've used it to remove minor rust on pretty much everything. I wouldn't hesitate using it.

 

[Acera]

That sucks. I would contact Gunbroker and see what they have to say about it. Sounds like the damage was not expressed in the ad and you got taken. How did you pay? If by Credit Card your bank might help.

I think that there are gunsmiths that will sleeve the barrel and make it good as new. However, that will probably destroy any collector value and cost a lot of money to get it shooting. I would consider it for a family heirloom that I wanted to shoot regularly, but probably not for some generic gun.

 

[Moonpie]

Clear it best you can.
Shoot it.
If it shoots okay, roll with it.

 

[AR1911]

Evaporust. Seriously
It removes rust without harming anything else BUT it does remove bluing (it's a form of rust) I would not hesitate to use it on any of my collectible firearms. In fact I did use it on a 1918 Colt magazine recently

it is not an acid like Naval Jelly. It's a chelant. Completely harmless to anything but rust

So plug the muzzle
stand it up
fill the bore with Evaporust
let it sit a couple days

One caveat: it will etch if there is bare steel at the liquid/interface. So you have to protect it there. Grease the chamber perhaps and fill so the fluid rises into the (protected) chamber

I have some 4-oz sample bottles that should be plenty for that.

 

[motorcarman]

Evaporust. Seriously
It removes rust without harming anything else BUT it does remove bluing (it's a form of rust) I would not hesitate to use it on any of my collectible firearms. In fact I did use it on a 1918 Colt magazine recently

it is not an acid like Naval Jelly. It's a chelant. Completely harmless to anything but rust

So plug the muzzle
stand it up
fill the bore with Evaporust
let it sit a couple days

One caveat: it will etch if there is bare steel at the liquid/interface. So you have to protect it there. Grease the chamber perhaps and fill so the fluid rises into the (protected) chamber

I have some 4-oz sample bottles that should be plenty for that.

+1

I keep a gallon of the EVAPORUST in my 'chemical arsenal'. I buy damaged/rusted guns all the time and I have 30" sections of PVC pipe in different diameters for 'soaking' the barrels of dis-assembled rifles. Just cap one end and stand vertical, put the barrel in and fill with EVAPORUST.

Pull it out every half hour or so for inspection. Flush it with water and blow it dry.

If you don't want to risk any of the remaining 'blueing' or affect the outer surface at all you can plug the muzzle and fill the breach with the solution like ar1911 suggests. Just drain, flush and oil.

I usually have to use a cold blue (like blue wonder etc.) chemical to stop the continuation of the oxide on exterior parts that are rusted. Sometimes just a touch-up will keep it safe without removing any of the original blue.

You should at least do something to preserve what is left of the firearm. Stop the deterioration.

bob

 

[Mikeinhistory]

Don't plug it. If it still has rifling it'll clean and end up working fine. I have some messed up pitted rifle bores on some old milsurp rifles and they work fine.

 

[Vaquero]

Another note.
I've witnessed unscrupulous gunsmiths declare a rifle "ruined" and offered to buy as a "parts gun" then found the very rifle offered for sale by the same shop.

You've got a nice collectible. Treat it well. It'll return the favor.

 

[ROGER4314]

Moonpie gets my vote. Unless the barrel has Microgroove rifling that is only about .002" deep, I'd just shoot it! Old rifles were expected to have some corrosion in the bore.

I sometimes laugh when owners gripe about military rifles with corroded bores. Heck, they were designed to be fired with less than perfect bores.

Flash

 

[Texasjack]

Using a product like Kroil won't harm the barrel. The oil will merely penetrate the rust and loosen it up so that you can get most of it out with a good brush.

Older ammo used corrosive primers that left a salt in the barrels that attracted water and would cause a lot of corrosion. It's not unusual. I have an old rifle that looks like the craters of the moon inside. I planned to replace the barrel, but then shot it and found it shot great as it is.

Sounds like this rifle has too much wear and tear to be a "collectable", but it's still a great rifle and a historical piece. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

[OLDVET]

This was not a case of the gunsmith wanting to low ball the rifle's condition so he could buy it from me. The gunsmith is an old friend of mine and has built a few semi-custom handguns for me over the years.
He was more concerned with me getting injured shooting the rifle. I have since cleaned the barrel a few time using Kroil Oil and Flitz. The lands and grooves are visible again. The barrel still has a patch of rust build-up about midpoint in the barrel. I think more concentrated effort in that area will reduce this to any acceptable level. I paid $800 for this old warrior. I see rifles from this time period [but in much better condition] selling for 2K or more on Gunbroker.

I suspected something might be amiss during the purchase of this rifle. The seller's GunBroker ad mentioned the buyer should have a gunsmith inspect the rifle due to its advanced age. Generally sellers are experienced firearms people who can look at a firearm and judge it's condition and tell whether it is in good condition or not. I would never place anything for sale to the public that I thought was not 100%.

It is what it is. Maybe it will clean up and be a fun shooter in the near future. If not, I have an interesting piece of western wall art.

 

[ParkerBoy]

I've owned a lot of old 94 rifles over the years, some with pretty rough looking bores. Never had a single problem shooting any of them, once they were cleaned up. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I doubt that you'll find very many guns over 100 years old that would qualify as 100%.

 

[Rebel]

Anyone else look at the title and think of Ivan Chesnokov?

My uncle has an old Winchester 1886 chambered in .40-65. He even has a handful of cartridges that are probably as old as he is. My Uncle's grandfather bought the rifle brand new and it's been passed down over the years. Last time the rifle was taken out was during a deer hunt 60-some years ago. It's been sitting under my Uncle's bed ever since. I want to restore the functionality of the rifle (to the horror of many people), but the few gunsmiths I talked to wouldn't take the job, except for a Winchester specialist that wanted about $2500 for a restoration. That was a bit much for an 18 year old kid working at a retail store.

 

[Acera]

My uncle has an old Winchester 1886 chambered in .40-65. He even has a handful of cartridges that are probably as old as he is. My Uncle's grandfather bought the rifle brand new and it's been passed down over the years. Last time the rifle was taken out was during a deer hunt 60-some years ago. It's been sitting under my Uncle's bed ever since. I want to restore the functionality of the rifle (to the horror of many people), but the few gunsmiths I talked to wouldn't take the job, except for a Winchester specialist that wanted about $2500 for a restoration. That was a bit much for an 18 year old kid working at a retail store.

Well when you do get that kind of extra money for the project, I would suggest you also consider these guys. Firearm Full Restoration | Turnbull Manufacturing Company

 

[Rebel]

Turnbull is probably the route I would take today since I don't live in CA anymore. There was a (relatively) local guy that was supposed to be spot on when it came to restoring old Winchesters.