We must get our troops out of Afganistan that have been there for 20 years !

[amberloo]

But its allright that we have had troops in europe and Japan since the end of WWII or almost 70 years and in South Korea since 1953 but it is absolutely critical to biden that we get our troops out of afgannistan and let the taliban have it.

The US currently has 170,000 active duty troops in about 140 countries all over the workd, but those couple of thousand in afgannistan have to be removed no matter what and all the money and lives that we have lost are not worth worrying about What a bunch of loser we have running this country

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Afghanistan is Not our problem.

 

[rotor]

I feel sorry for the Afghan people but would not one one of my children or grandchildren fighting the battle for those people. We have poured tons of money, military equipment, training and American lives into that country. The result, a corrupt government and people that don't have the will to fight for themselves. If you can't fight for your freedom you don't deserve it. Maybe we should have trained the females there to be the warriors as the men we dealt with are not fighters.
This is something to consider here too. How many Americans will fight for their freedom from oppression?

 

[Sasquatch]

Afghanistan is Not our problem.

Exactly. Not our problem, never really was our problem. No need to invade and push regime change, when they could've droned Bin Laden's ass, if he really was there. He was killed in Pakistan anyway.

We don't need to be there. There's little strategic value to having a presence there. Likewise, we don't need to be in Iraq. Let the goat fuckers have their little fifedoms. We don't need to be the world police. When does it become the responsibility of the native peoples to overthrow an oppressive government, anyway? Maybe they liked how things were, and don't want to abide by our ideals of what their government and lifestyle should be?

We don't need large bases on foreign soil. Our troops in Europe were a speed bump at best during the cold war. Our troops in Japan / Okinawa / Korea are a speed bump in the cold war with China and North Korea. If shit needs killing right now - we have submarines and ICBMs with conventional or nuclear payloads capable of raining down death from above. We can mobilize ground forces quickly enough to fly them in from US territory if we need bodies to secure territory, but what in god's name is a reason to do so at this point? Is Iraq really any better off today than it was in 2002? Is Afghanistan any better off today than it was in 2001?

How much money has been wasted occupying foreign territory, how many American lives have been lost over it, and what positive thing did we really gain? What was served by killing Osama Bin Laden, other than a little revenge on what could've been a patsy? What was served really by killing Saddam Hussein, other than revenge for Daddy Bush? Thousands of years of history in the middle east point to the fact that shit will devolve back into theocratic rule soon enough, and there will be division, violence, and oppression probably worse than it was before.

Its not like we captured all the oil reserves and brought them here to the US. Its not like we are getting free oil to pay us back for bringing "freedom" to Iraq or Afghanistan. Other than 20 years of blood shed and pissing away money, and pissing off a bunch of already pissed off muslims - what lasting thing have we accomplished?

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

LD and I finally agree on something.

Afghanistan...NOT OUR PROBLEM!

Never was...

 

[oldag]

Afghanistan is Not our problem.

Yeah, that is what they said before 9/11.

 

[amberloo]

Afghanistan is Not our problem.

Neither is prolly 138 of the other 139 countries we have troops in prolly

 

[Sasquatch]

Yeah, that is what they said before 9/11.

Still wasn't our problem. Bin Laden was a Saudi. The Saudi's financed the bastards flying the planes. But the Saudis were butt buddies with the politicos in DC, so we blame Afghanistan for harboring Bin Laden?

 

[oldag]

Exactly. Not our problem, never really was our problem. No need to invade and push regime change, when they could've droned Bin Laden's ass, if he really was there. He was killed in Pakistan anyway.

We don't need to be there. There's little strategic value to having a presence there. Likewise, we don't need to be in Iraq. Let the goat fuckers have their little fifedoms. We don't need to be the world police. When does it become the responsibility of the native peoples to overthrow an oppressive government, anyway? Maybe they liked how things were, and don't want to abide by our ideals of what their government and lifestyle should be?

We don't need large bases on foreign soil. Our troops in Europe were a speed bump at best during the cold war. Our troops in Japan / Okinawa / Korea are a speed bump in the cold war with China and North Korea. If shit needs killing right now - we have submarines and ICBMs with conventional or nuclear payloads capable of raining down death from above. We can mobilize ground forces quickly enough to fly them in from US territory if we need bodies to secure territory, but what in god's name is a reason to do so at this point? Is Iraq really any better off today than it was in 2002? Is Afghanistan any better off today than it was in 2001?

How much money has been wasted occupying foreign territory, how many American lives have been lost over it, and what positive thing did we really gain? What was served by killing Osama Bin Laden, other than a little revenge on what could've been a patsy? What was served really by killing Saddam Hussein, other than revenge for Daddy Bush? Thousands of years of history in the middle east point to the fact that shit will devolve back into theocratic rule soon enough, and there will be division, violence, and oppression probably worse than it was before.

Its not like we captured all the oil reserves and brought them here to the US. Its not like we are getting free oil to pay us back for bringing "freedom" to Iraq or Afghanistan. Other than 20 years of blood shed and pissing away money, and pissing off a bunch of already pissed off muslims - what lasting thing have we accomplished?

At least be accurate. bin Laden was killed in Pakistan, yet. Years later, AFTER he fled from Afghanistan where he had stayed for years.

And actually we cannot mobilize troops from the US overseas quickly.

You think we are going to use strategic nukes in anything but a MAD situation? That's funny.

Actually, Iraq is better off than it was under Saddam. Just ask any citizen. Some people have not studied the horrendous atrocities committed by Saddam, on his own people.

What was served by going after terrorists where they live? They had to go on the run. They were running for their lives and did not have time/resources to execute another 9/11. Do you think the lack of terrorist acts in the US after 9/11 was merely coincidence? Or that the terrorists decided just to retire and rest on their laurels after 9/11? Wise up.

 

[oldag]

Still wasn't our problem. Bin Laden was a Saudi. The Saudi's financed the bastards flying the planes. But the Saudis were butt buddies with the politicos in DC, so we blame Afghanistan for harboring Bin Laden?

bin Laden was not harbored in Saudi. We could have turned Saudi into a glass parking lot, but if we had not gone after bin Laden himself there would have been many more 9/11's.

Now, I would not have had a problem with teaching Saudi a lesson. Either militarily or economically. But that would have done nothing to slow bin Laden at that point.

 

[Sasquatch]

At least be accurate. bin Laden was killed in Pakistan, yet. Years later, AFTER he fled from Afghanistan where he had stayed for years.

And actually we cannot mobilize troops from the US overseas quickly.

You think we are going to use strategic nukes in anything but a MAD situation? That's funny.

Actually, Iraq is better off than it was under Saddam. Just ask any citizen. Some people have not studied the horrendous atrocities committed by Saddam, on his own people.

What was served by going after terrorists where they live? They had to go on the run. They were running for their lives and did not have time/resources to execute another 9/11. Do you think the lack of terrorist acts in the US after 9/11 was merely coincidence? Or that the terrorists decided just to retire and rest on their laurels after 9/11? Wise up.

20 years of terrorist attacks in their own country, turning kids into terrorists that killed American troops, helping radicalize two generations against the US - that sure was good. The Iraqi government now is a mess, and it'll fall to another dictator within a decade. Did Saddam commit atrocities? He sure did. He was also the result of the US propping up a puppet to fight a proxy war with the commies. Kinda like Castro.

ISIS wasn't exactly great for Iraq, they killed people not aligned with them. Its OK tho, because it wasn't Saddam.

Yeah, Bin Laden was killed in PAKISTAN. Who knows how long he actually was there - his videos could've been filmed anywhere and released at any time. Again - we had drone tech, cruise missiles, high altitude bombers - no reason to occupy Afghanistan if he was there. They didn't have an Air Force to stop us, and obviously Russia wasn't going to be intervening on their behalf. We could've bombed the ever living shit out of every cave suspected of harboring a human, and not wasted thousands of American lives and billions of dollars occupying that shithole, that has fallen back to Taliban control.

You also ignored that I said we have *conventional* warheads, not just nukes, that can be delivered by remote means. Nothing we got from the last 20 years of occupying Afghanistan or Iraq was worth the cost. Nothing.

As far as terrorist attacks post 9-11? I don't buy the story that there were many planned, and I think that the Bush admin knew about them and purposefully didn't stop it - they were convenient to help usher in shit like the Patriot Act and expand federal powers of surveillance, as well pushing toward a more authoritarian government. We got the Department of Homeland Security, they restructured Customs & Border Protection with Immigration to form ICE, and we got to see abuse after abuse of FISA courts and now you get groped flying anywhere within the country, yet the southern border is still pourous and they've captured people from all over the damn globe coming in. Security theater.

Any terrorists who fled their homes in Iraq ran straight to Syria or Iran anyway - places we weren't about to invade, because of their close ties to Russia. The war hawks in DC have been goading for a war in both places, of course. That's probably the only reason we're still in the middle east, because they want to use it as the staging ground for land-war in Iran or Syria (or both). Our mere presense in Iraq probably created ten times the number of terrorists / anti American fighters than existed prior to the invasion. Not saying some of them didn't love us, and aren't glad Saddam is gone. But how many American sympathizers / supporters wound up killed, or their families were killed because they were working with us?

The "war on terror" hasn't exactly been great for anyone except those profiting from it and concentrating political power. It certainly was no good for the tax payers, we just got squeezed harder, and have more restrictions on our own freedom. It wasn't good for the people of the countries we invaded - its caused more instability than anything else - and especially in Afghanistan, they're basically back to where they were 20 years ago, the Taliban was out of power for a while, but they're back. Now China is negotiating with them and allying with them - are we going to get in a shooting war with China over Afhganistan at some point? Last I knew, Biden was ordering the Marines in to evacuate any Americans who wanted out, along with Embassy personnel.

U.S. Is Sending 3,000 Troops Back to Afghanistan to Begin Evacuations (Published 2021)

With the Taliban sweeping across the country, U.S. officials say Kabul could fall in 30 days.

www.nytimes.com

Kind of reminds you of the fall of Saigon, doesn't it? Vietnam didn't wind up going so well for us either, not because our military couldn't win, but the politicians didn't let them. We weren't in Afghanistan to win, and the people of that country largely don't want western style way of life - if they did, they would've risen up long before and driven the Taliban out of power. The "legitimate" government is falling apart, the Taliban is regaining control of the country rapidly, and there will be hell to pay for anyone who supported the US.

Those terrorist attacks you spoke of? Yeah, they could be coming in the future now. But from the generation that grew up with American soldiers bombing them, shooting them, and tearing up *their* country. We wouldn't be keen on China, Russia, or Germany putting soldiers on our soil and going on a hunting trip, you can't expect them to be any happier about our presence.

 

[oldag]

As far as terrorist attacks post 9-11? I don't buy the story that there were many planned, and I think that the Bush admin knew about them and purposefully didn't stop it - they were convenient to help usher in shit like the Patriot Act and expand federal powers of surveillance, as well pushing toward a more authoritarian government. We got the Department of Homeland Security, they restructured Customs & Border Protection with Immigration to form ICE, and we got to see abuse after abuse of FISA courts and now you get groped flying anywhere within the country, yet the southern border is still pourous and they've captured people from all over the damn globe coming in. Security theater.

If anyone buys that crock, there is zero use in continuing the discussion. If a person knew anything about W, had ever met the man, they would know how ridiculously stupid that conspiracy theory is.

Might want to adjust the tin foil in your socks. The black helicopters area circling around your house. And the Trilateral Commission is spying on you from your toilet. And whatever you do, don't go with the green men from the flying saucer that landed in your backyard.

 

[bbbass]

Radical Islam decided they hate America long ago. I started reading about it at least 40 years ago, when it was predicted that WE would be the next Israel because of our relationship with Israel.

That and they call us "The Great Satan" because to good Muslims, we have a very immoral country. Strikes me as strange why so many that don't like the way we do things come here as refugees. Ilhan Omar comes to mind. They live in a shithole, it's so bad they flee, then come here and complain after being given a free ride lifestyle. Sigh.

 

[bbbass]

What was served by killing Osama Bin Laden, other than a little revenge on what could've been a patsy? What was served really by killing Saddam Hussein

OBL was directly responsible for planning and organizing the deaths of close to 3000, immense economic damage, and follow on deaths and illness. I'm not sad that we took our revenge on that sucker.

Saddam and his boyz were sadistic rulers that needed to die. But not by our hand except in battle. I don't think WE killed him... wasn't his hanging ordered by Iraqi govt? Not our problem.

 

[jonevill]

Yea, it sure reminds me of Viet Nam. If the people of a country don't want freedom enough to fight for it, we can't force them.
Taking on another country's fight hasn't worked out well for us.

 

[Sasquatch]

If anyone buys that crock, there is zero use in continuing the discussion. If a person knew anything about W, had ever met the man, they would know how ridiculously stupid that conspiracy theory is.

Might want to adjust the tin foil in your socks. The black helicopters area circling around your house. And the Trilateral Commission is spying on you from your toilet. And whatever you do, don't go with the green men from the flying saucer that landed in your backyard.

Conspiracy theory? They literally created the Department of Homeland Security after 9/11 - they passed the Patriot Act after 9/11 and pushed surveillance on US citizens to levels never before seen. People got hoovered up and stuck in Guantanamo Bay where they were held indefinitely, instead of being arrested and facing trial in civilian court. Extra judicial execution of US citizens abroad became a normal thing. You *cannot* fly domestically without intrusive searches of your person, or getting irradiated with the TSA body scanners. You think that a handful of Saudi's flying planes into buildings here didn't play right into the hands of the people who crafted those programs? That shit was waiting in the wings, ready for the right time. It wasn't pulled out of the senate's ass in the short time following 9/11.

George Bush Jr. might be an alright person, but he oversaw the expansion of US government powers the likes that hadn't been seen since the 1940s. His administration pushed the narrative which lead us into Iraq - when Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. They weren't Iraqi nationals, they weren't trained in Iraq. They were Saudis. They got their pilot training here in the US and abroad.

 

[Younggun]

20 years of terrorist attacks in their own country, turning kids into terrorists that killed American troops, helping radicalize two generations against the US - that sure was good. The Iraqi government now is a mess, and it'll fall to another dictator within a decade. Did Saddam commit atrocities? He sure did. He was also the result of the US propping up a puppet to fight a proxy war with the commies. Kinda like Castro.

ISIS wasn't exactly great for Iraq, they killed people not aligned with them. Its OK tho, because it wasn't Saddam.

Yeah, Bin Laden was killed in PAKISTAN. Who knows how long he actually was there - his videos could've been filmed anywhere and released at any time. Again - we had drone tech, cruise missiles, high altitude bombers - no reason to occupy Afghanistan if he was there. They didn't have an Air Force to stop us, and obviously Russia wasn't going to be intervening on their behalf. We could've bombed the ever living shit out of every cave suspected of harboring a human, and not wasted thousands of American lives and billions of dollars occupying that shithole, that has fallen back to Taliban control.

You also ignored that I said we have *conventional* warheads, not just nukes, that can be delivered by remote means. Nothing we got from the last 20 years of occupying Afghanistan or Iraq was worth the cost. Nothing.

As far as terrorist attacks post 9-11? I don't buy the story that there were many planned, and I think that the Bush admin knew about them and purposefully didn't stop it - they were convenient to help usher in shit like the Patriot Act and expand federal powers of surveillance, as well pushing toward a more authoritarian government. We got the Department of Homeland Security, they restructured Customs & Border Protection with Immigration to form ICE, and we got to see abuse after abuse of FISA courts and now you get groped flying anywhere within the country, yet the southern border is still pourous and they've captured people from all over the damn globe coming in. Security theater.

Any terrorists who fled their homes in Iraq ran straight to Syria or Iran anyway - places we weren't about to invade, because of their close ties to Russia. The war hawks in DC have been goading for a war in both places, of course. That's probably the only reason we're still in the middle east, because they want to use it as the staging ground for land-war in Iran or Syria (or both). Our mere presense in Iraq probably created ten times the number of terrorists / anti American fighters than existed prior to the invasion. Not saying some of them didn't love us, and aren't glad Saddam is gone. But how many American sympathizers / supporters wound up killed, or their families were killed because they were working with us?

The "war on terror" hasn't exactly been great for anyone except those profiting from it and concentrating political power. It certainly was no good for the tax payers, we just got squeezed harder, and have more restrictions on our own freedom. It wasn't good for the people of the countries we invaded - its caused more instability than anything else - and especially in Afghanistan, they're basically back to where they were 20 years ago, the Taliban was out of power for a while, but they're back. Now China is negotiating with them and allying with them - are we going to get in a shooting war with China over Afhganistan at some point? Last I knew, Biden was ordering the Marines in to evacuate any Americans who wanted out, along with Embassy personnel.

U.S. Is Sending 3,000 Troops Back to Afghanistan to Begin Evacuations (Published 2021)

With the Taliban sweeping across the country, U.S. officials say Kabul could fall in 30 days.

www.nytimes.com

Kind of reminds you of the fall of Saigon, doesn't it? Vietnam didn't wind up going so well for us either, not because our military couldn't win, but the politicians didn't let them. We weren't in Afghanistan to win, and the people of that country largely don't want western style way of life - if they did, they would've risen up long before and driven the Taliban out of power. The "legitimate" government is falling apart, the Taliban is regaining control of the country rapidly, and there will be hell to pay for anyone who supported the US.

Those terrorist attacks you spoke of? Yeah, they could be coming in the future now. But from the generation that grew up with American soldiers bombing them, shooting them, and tearing up *their* country. We wouldn't be keen on China, Russia, or Germany putting soldiers on our soil and going on a hunting trip, you can't expect them to be any happier about our presence.

Haven’t had one American killed in Afghanistan in 18 months, so definitely doesn’t correlate well with Vietnam except for this botched mess of a withdrawal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sasquatch]

OBL was directly responsible for planning and organizing the deaths of close to 3000, immense economic damage, and follow on deaths and illness. I'm not sad that we took our revenge on that sucker.

Saddam and his boyz were sadistic rulers that needed to die. But not by our hand except in battle. I don't think WE killed him... wasn't his hanging ordered by Iraqi govt? Not our problem.

I'm no OBL fan or sympathizer - he should've been hunted down long before he was. He was behind the plotting of the first WTC bombings under Bill Clinton. His family wealth and connections with the Saudi royal family are no doubt why he wasn't. Bin Laden was another former US puppet - and another that turned on us. He was useful to us in our proxy war in Afghanistan in the 1980s during the Russian invasion.

We've not had great success in picking our puppets since the 1950's. Castro, Hussein, Bin Laden. They all turned against us.

 

[Sasquatch]

Haven’t had one American killed in Afghanistan in 18 months, so definitely doesn’t correlate well with Vietnam except for this botched mess of a withdrawal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More the correlation that the government we backed/installed is falling to the enemy, and we have to get our people out. Hopefully no more American lives are lost there. If Afghanistan wants western style freedom, they need to fight for it themselves. Doesn't seem that most want it.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Yeah, that is what they said before 9/11.

Get in get out. The deed was done.