Ukraine War and Politics

[zackmars]

If it were 40 years ago, and we were told we could totally erase any notion of Russia being a competent military force for a mere 70 billion, and no direct involvement, we'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

It's not like the government was going to spend that money on US soil anyways. Where would you rather have that money go? Some shady LGBT group in Saudi Arabia, or a country that has a long history of getting bent over by the Russians and are paying them back?

 

[BigRed]

If it were 40 years ago, and we were told we could totally erase any notion of Russia being a competent military force for a mere 70 billion, and no direct involvement, we'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

It's not like the government was going to spend that money on US soil anyways. Where would you rather have that money go? Some shady LGBT group in Saudi Arabia, or a country that has a long history of getting bent over by the Russians and are paying them back?

None of the above.

Now run $70,000,000,000 through an inflation calculator comparing the value of the dollar today vs 40 years ago.

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2024

Easily calculate how the buying power of the U.S. dollar has changed from 1913 to 2024. Get inflation rates and U.S. inflation news.

www.usinflationcalculator.com

 

[zackmars]

None of the above.

Now run $70,000,000,000 through an inflation calculator comparing the value of the dollar today vs 40 years ago.

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2024

Easily calculate how the buying power of the U.S. dollar has changed from 1913 to 2024. Get inflation rates and U.S. inflation news.

www.usinflationcalculator.com

If we're going to be splitting hairs, we'd need to figure out what amount 40 years ago would equal 70bil today.

Betcha it'd be pretty damn insignificant when compared to all the money we've spent on the space race, various weapon systems and other stuff we've built over the years to counter Russian threats. But even if the offer was 70,000,000,000 40 years ago, yes, we would've absolutely taken it to be able to show the world that the big bad boogey man is incompetent without shedding a drop of American blood.

 

[Dakar34]

If it were 40 years ago, and we were told we could totally erase any notion of Russia being a competent military force for a mere 70 billion, and no direct involvement, we'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

It's not like the government was going to spend that money on US soil anyways. Where would you rather have that money go? Some shady LGBT group in Saudi Arabia, or a country that has a long history of getting bent over by the Russians and are paying them back?

Only we won that war long ago, and the Russians haven’t been a competent military force for decades. Which they have shown in Ukraine. All we’re doing now is sharpening their skills.

 

[cycleguy2300]

He speaks as though it is his property to give away.

It is not.

The place was a shithole of corruption.

It still is.

The USA or???

Corruption is bad, corruptionis wrong, but to suggest Ukraine is somehow unique and unsupportable when they have made huge strides in fixing corruption, possibly bigger ones than the USA has in the same time period, is ridiculous.

None of these folks are great but two, both American and with the same last name are by far the worst of the bunch.

American VP holding a billion dollars of American aid hostage for his and his family's personal gain.

American VP's son peddling access to his daddy.

Private company that happened to be in Ukraine who needed whatever Hunter had to offer.

A Ukrainian president who fired a anti-corruption prosecutor so their nation could get a billion dollars in American aidbthat was being held hostage by FJB...

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[Havok1]

Havok1 is using "Proxy war" to shift culpability to Ukraine. In that the term is incorrect and misleading and therefore in manner of his use it is not a proxy war.

Should one use the term the same way one may have called the UK or the Soviets a proxy of the USA before 8Dec41 then perhaps, but it still has a lot different from the classical examples, russia is (was) regarded as a major world power, one that would be using a proxy to wage war yet they themselves are having to resort to support from the likes of Iran and N Korea among others.

Academically, it may be correct to say the russian invasion of Ukriane has become a proxy war, however much like "retarded" or "gay" the term has taken on too many connotations, thanks to russian attempts to blame everyone but themselves for the war, to be used in the academic sense without ample definition which was not provided even after repeated requests.

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No, I refer to it as a proxy war because it’s a proxy war. What made you suddenly start caring about this term?

 

[cycleguy2300]

If we're going to be splitting hairs, we'd need to figure out what amount 40 years ago would equal 70bil today.

Betcha it'd be pretty damn insignificant when compared to all the money we've spent on the space race, various weapon systems and other stuff we've built over the years to counter Russian threats. But even if the offer was 70,000,000,000 40 years ago, yes, we would've absolutely taken it to be able to show the world that the big bad boogey man is incompetent without shedding a drop of American blood.

Single digit percentages of the DOD budget...

Value wise, supporting Ukraine if only to weaken russia has a great ROI.

Policy wise supporting a sovereign nations that was unjustly invaded is the right thing to do.

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[zackmars]

Only we won that war long ago, and the Russians haven’t been a competent military force for decades. Which they have shown in Ukraine. All we’re doing now is sharpening their skills.

We won our war, unfortunately for quite a few people in Eastern Europe they have to deal with a country that will invade them because Russia thinks they *might* join NATO

Or they *might* get friendly with the west, as Georgia and Afghanistan learned, and Ukraine is currently learning

 

[Havok1]

Single digit percentages of the DOD budget...

Value wise, supporting Ukraine if only to weaken russia has a great ROI.

Policy wise supporting a sovereign nations that was unjustly invaded is the right thing to do.

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Interesting comment for a guy arguing that it’s not a proxy war. You may want to double check how much we have “weakened Russia”.

 

[cycleguy2300]

No, I refer to it as a proxy war because it’s a proxy war. What made you suddenly start caring about this term?

Because of your repeated use of it and its coopting by those who want to pretend the war was started by the west or somehow the west or Ukraine deserved this war when the only one responsible is russia who invaded Ukraine in 2014.

WWII was a proxy war...

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[zackmars]

Interesting comment for a guy arguing that it’s not a proxy war. You may want to double check how much we have “weakened Russia”.

Considering Russia is buying munitions from Iran, China, and North Korea, I'd say we've had some effect.

Considering their navy had their flagship promoted to submarine, I'd say we've had some effect.

Considering the international community would jerk itself off over Russias EW capabilities, and these guy invade a country equipped with  beofengs, we've had some effect

 

[Havok1]

Considering Russia is buying munitions from Iran, China, and North Korea, I'd say we've had some effect.

Considering their navy had their flagship promoted to submarine, I'd say we've had some effect.

Considering the international community would jerk itself off over Russias EW capabilities, and these guy invade a country equipped with  beofengs, we've had some effect

considering Russia is out producing us by a large margin when it comes to munitions.

Considering their worldwide naval activity is increasing.

Considering their military is now larger than it was before.

We’ve had some effect, but not in a way that is good for us.

 

[zackmars]

considering Russia is out producing us by a large margin when it comes to munitions.

Considering their worldwide naval activity is increasing.

Considering their military is now larger than it was before.

We’ve had some effect, but not in a way that is good for us.

Considering our stuff works, and our stuff from 30 years ago smokes russian stuff like its going out of style

Considering their Naval activities usually involve sinking or blowing up, i cant wait. No shitshow like a russian naval shitshow i seriously pray every night hoping they fire up their fleet of tug boats and bring the Admrial Kuznetsov within range of Ukrainian drones/AShM's so they send that heap to the bottom so no more dock workers have to risk getting tetanus.

Larger thanks to reserves of old men. Russia has no NCO corps, and has little in the way of experience in conducting successful combat operations. They fight like mongol hordes. Always have.

Russias failure is good for us. It's good for NATO. Russia is holding sand. They spent 80 years holding their "friends" at the end of a gun. Shocker! They didn't like that. Maybe if Russia didn't want them joining NATO, they shouldn't have stolen from them, starved them, invaded them.

 

[BigRed]

If we're going to be splitting hairs, we'd need to figure out what amount 40 years ago would equal 70bil today.

The calculator link I posted does just that...without splitting hairs.

It's math.

 

[BigRed]

The USA or???

Corruption is bad, corruptionis wrong, but to suggest Ukraine is somehow unique and unsupportable when they have made huge strides in fixing corruption, possibly bigger ones than the USA has in the same time period, is ridiculous.

None of these folks are great but two, both American and with the same last name are by far the worst of the bunch.

American VP holding a billion dollars of American aid hostage for his and his family's personal gain.

American VP's son peddling access to his daddy.

Private company that happened to be in Ukraine who needed whatever Hunter had to offer.

A Ukrainian president who fired a anti-corruption prosecutor so their nation could get a billion dollars in American aidbthat was being held hostage by FJB...

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Feel free to show where I have defended the clowns on either side of this shit show of a circus.

 

[zackmars]

The calculator link I posted does just that...without splitting hairs.

It's math.

Well good for you. Doesn't change my argument

Any way we slice it, we got a hell of a deal.

 

[cycleguy2300]

considering Russia is out producing us by a large margin when it comes to munitions.

Considering their worldwide naval activity is increasing.

Considering their military is now larger than it was before.

We’ve had some effect, but not in a way that is good for us.

Where are you seeing russian munition production is exceeded ours?

russia has lost 1/3 of its Black Sea Fleet to a nation without a navy in 2 years of a 3-day special military operation... just sailing around in old, vulnerable ships where the war is not isnt exactly projection...

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[glenbo]

Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Russia takes terrorist actions against the people of the sovereign nation. Russia is wrong, and that's the end of that discussion.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Russia takes terrorist actions against the people of the sovereign nation. Russia is wrong, and that's the end of that discussion.

Amen

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[BigRed]

Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Russia takes terrorist actions against the people of the sovereign nation. Russia is wrong, and that's the end of that discussion.

So we can end the rendering of property from American taxpayers?