Ukraine War and Politics

[Havok1]

And put back in the tool box when infective.

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If a tool is not effective it should be thrown in the trash, not put back in the tool box, but here we are. I bet Lockheed Martin is quite pleased with what they are getting for their money.

 

[Dakar34]

“Did it warm your heart to see all those blue and yellow Ukrainian flags waved by our elected officials in Congress Saturday night with the passage of the $60-plus-billion aid bill to the Palookaville of Europe? You realize, don’t you, that the tiny fraction of that hypothetical “money” — from our country’s empty treasury — that ever reaches Ukraine will rebound on the instant into Mr. Zelensky’s Cayman Islands bank account. The rest of the dough enters the recursive shell-game between US weapons-makers and the very hometown folks in Congress waving those blue and yellow flags, who will receive great greasy gobs of fresh “campaign donations” from the grateful bomb and missile producers. No wonder they’re cheering.”

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-bad-faith-olympics/

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[cycleguy2300]

“Did it warm your heart to see all those blue and yellow Ukrainian flags waved by our elected officials in Congress Saturday night with the passage of the $60-plus-billion aid bill to the Palookaville of Europe? You realize, don’t you, that the tiny fraction of that hypothetical “money” — from our country’s empty treasury — that ever reaches Ukraine will rebound on the instant into Mr. Zelensky’s Cayman Islands bank account. The rest of the dough enters the recursive shell-game between US weapons-makers and the very hometown folks in Congress waving those blue and yellow flags, who will receive great greasy gobs of fresh “campaign donations” from the grateful bomb and missile producers. No wonder they’re cheering.”

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-bad-faith-olympics/

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He is just repeating old russian lies about the war russia started. The US didn't start the war and the Maidan "Revolution" which was totally home-grown Ukrainian except for the russian trained snipers the russian backed government used to shoot both protesters and police to instigate violence from both sides wasn't sponsored by western intel...

And its not a proxy-war. It is russia and Ukriane fighting and each side is obtaining weapons from others. The west the west didnt start this war and the west is supporting Ukriane because they were viciously and unjustifiably invaded by an oppressive, totalitarian regime.

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[Havok1]

lol. It’s a proxy war.

 

[Dakar34]

He is just repeating old russian lies about the war russia started. The US didn't start the war and the Maidan "Revolution" which was totally home-grown Ukrainian except for the russian trained snipers the russian backed government used to shoot both protesters and police to instigate violence from both sides wasn't sponsored by western intel...

And its not a proxy-war. It is russia and Ukriane fighting and each side is obtaining weapons from others. The west the west didnt start this war and the west is supporting Ukriane because they were viciously and unjustifiably invaded by an oppressive, totalitarian regime.

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Here's another one of your "Russian commie" groups - The Cato Institute

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy#

https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war#

 

[cycleguy2300]

lol. It’s a proxy war.

Who is the proxy?

Neither belligerent is acting on behalf of a third-party.

Neither is a non-state actor operating on behalf of a third-party

I cannot find a definition of PROXY-WAR that the russo-Ukraine war fits.

Perhaps you could simply post a link for the definition you are thinking of or describe why you are thinking it is a proxy war.

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[Havok1]

Who is the proxy?

Neither belligerent is acting on behalf of a third-party.

Neither is a non-state actor operating on behalf of a third-party

I cannot find a definition of PROXY-WAR that the russo-Ukraine war fits.

Perhaps you could simply post a link for the definition you are thinking of or describe why you are thinking it is a proxy war.

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Pretty sure all of that has been covered in this thread already. Did some ukraine ig page tell you its not, so suddenly you think its not?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Pretty sure all of that has been covered in this thread already. Did some ukraine ig page tell you its not, so suddenly you think its not?

You troll and bait and accuse and mislead, then deflect, ignore or refuse requests to provide evidence or definitions for the things you claim, the things you deny or the words you use.

Just have a conversation without being an incessant diva.

It is a simple couple of questions:

WHO IS THE PROXY?
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE A PROXY?

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[Havok1]

You know the answers to all of this. You’re just looking for argument. We are over 2 years into the proxy war, and the fact that you’ve just suddenly taken issue with the war being labeled as what it is, is quite suspect.

 

[kbaxter60]

And put back in the tool box when infective.

And Lyndsey isn't nearly the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[Johnny Diamond]

And Lyndsey isn't nearly the sharpest tool in the box.

No better n McCain in my book.

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[cycleguy2300]

No better n McCain in my book.

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I don't disagree.

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[Dakar34]

proxy war, a military conflict in which one or more third parties directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. Third parties in a proxy war do not participate in the actual fighting to any significant extent, if at all. Proxy wars enable major powers to avoid direct confrontation with each other as they compete for influence and resources. Direct means of support by third parties consist of military aid and training, economic assistance, and sometimes limited military operations with surrogate forces.

Proxy war | Definition, History, Examples, & Risks

Proxy war, a military conflict in which one or more third parties directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. Third parties in

www.britannica.com

Sounds exactly like what we've been doing in Ukraine for a decade now, which is even listed as an example of a proxy war.

 

[BigRed]

I think if the idea of Russia taking over the world was legit, the rest of the world would have already smoked those commies.

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"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact."
-George Orwell

 

[cycleguy2300]

proxy war, a military conflict in which one or more third parties directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. Third parties in a proxy war do not participate in the actual fighting to any significant extent, if at all. Proxy wars enable major powers to avoid direct confrontation with each other as they compete for influence and resources. Direct means of support by third parties consist of military aid and training, economic assistance, and sometimes limited military operations with surrogate forces.

Proxy war | Definition, History, Examples, & Risks

Proxy war, a military conflict in which one or more third parties directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. Third parties in

www.britannica.com

Sounds exactly like what we've been doing in Ukraine for a decade now, which is even listed as an example of a proxy war.

Havok1 is using "Proxy war" to shift culpability to Ukraine. In that the term is incorrect and misleading and therefore in manner of his use it is not a proxy war.

Should one use the term the same way one may have called the UK or the Soviets a proxy of the USA before 8Dec41 then perhaps, but it still has a lot different from the classical examples, russia is (was) regarded as a major world power, one that would be using a proxy to wage war yet they themselves are having to resort to support from the likes of Iran and N Korea among others.

Academically, it may be correct to say the russian invasion of Ukriane has become a proxy war, however much like "retarded" or "gay" the term has taken on too many connotations, thanks to russian attempts to blame everyone but themselves for the war, to be used in the academic sense without ample definition which was not provided even after repeated requests.

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[Dakar34]

Havok1 is using "Proxy war" to shift culpability to Ukraine. In that the term is incorrect and misleading and therefore in manner of his use it is not a proxy war.

Should one use the term the same way one may have called the UK or the Soviets a proxy of the USA before 8Dec41 then perhaps, but it still has a lot different from the classical examples, russia is (was) regarded as a major world power, one that would be using a proxy to wage war yet they themselves are having to resort to support from the likes of Iran and N Korea among others.

Academically, it may be correct to say the russian invasion of Ukriane has become a proxy war, however much like "retarded" or "gay" the term has taken on too many connotations, thanks to russian attempts to blame everyone but themselves for the war, to be used in the academic sense without ample definition which was not provided even after repeated requests.

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Yeah, I just gave you the Encyclopedia Britannica definition and not only does it exactly fit that definition but it is even listed as an example of a proxy war. You don't like that so you simply reject it anyway. And btw, if you read the definition it was a proxy war even before the Russians invaded, when the US-backed (and hand picked) central gov't was fighting with Russian-backed groups.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Yeah, I just gave you the Encyclopedia Britannica definition and not only does it exactly fit that definition but it is even listed as an example of a proxy war. You don't like that so you simply reject it anyway. And btw, if you read the definition it was a proxy war even before the Russians invaded, when the US-backed (and hand picked) central gov't was fighting with Russian-backed groups.

Academically, it may be correct to say the russian invasion of Ukriane has become a proxy war, however much like "retarded" or "gay" the term has taken on too many false connotations, thanks to russian attempts to blame everyone but themselves for the war to be used without ample definition of the term.

WWII was a proxy war...

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[BigRed]

User Clip: Biden Tells Story of Getting the Ukraine Prosecutor Fired

The Ukrainian prosecutor was investigating Biden's son & his company was fired at Biden's request after threatening to withhold $1B in aid.

www.c-span.org

 

[cycleguy2300]

User Clip: Biden Tells Story of Getting the Ukraine Prosecutor Fired

The Ukrainian prosecutor was investigating Biden's son & his company was fired at Biden's request after threatening to withhold $1B in aid.

www.c-span.org

6 years ago...what's your point?

Of the major players only FJB is still in power.

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[BigRed]

6 years ago...what's your point?

Of the major players only FJB is still in power.

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He speaks as though it is his property to give away.

It is not.

The place was a shithole of corruption.

It still is.