The Value of Military Service in 2023

[Cool 'Horn Luke]

To swing this discussion back to my original post General Burger wrote in part;

"And while specialized skills are important, I wholeheartedly believe that the personal characteristics and qualities developed during military service — leadership, self-discipline, perseverance — are even more relevant to a young person’s future success as a college student, employee or career military professional."

That alone is the most important result to me of successful military service be it one tour or a career. The qualities developed in service to our country carry on well after one gets their DD214.

BTW: did you know according to..."U.S. Dept. of Defense show that less than a quarter of Americans of prime recruiting age are eligible to serve in the military. The most recent data indicates that only 23-percent of Americans between the ages of 17 and 24 would meet the necessary qualifications to enlist.

Not a whole lot of potential warriors to stand on the ramparts to protect our country.

And that's why DoD just keeps lowering the standards. Sad. While I don't hold much hope for the future, I think a lot of us "old" folks might be surprised by the younger generations, if we just maintained a high standard, what they could attain. But, sadly, we just keep lowering our (society in general) expectations. The Chinese better hurry up and "get it on" while I can still see and shoot straight, 'cuz I'm too damned old to learn Mandarin.

 

[billtool]

And that's why DoD just keeps lowering the standards. Sad. While I don't hold much hope for the future, I think a lot of us "old" folks might be surprised by the younger generations, if we just maintained a high standard, what they could attain. But, sadly, we just keep lowering our (society in general) expectations. The Chinese better hurry up and "get it on" while I can still see and shoot straight, 'cuz I'm too damned old to learn Mandarin.

It is sad. Making the lowest common denominator the standard of excellence. All in the name of equity. I only did 4 right after high school and it made a man out of me. And I needed it. I take those lessons learned to my team every day. Organization in the work place is the sign of a well run business. I’ve seen very few profitable shitholes. And I’ve seen no happy employees working in a shithole.

 

[majormadmax]

When I see the President of the United States directing an insurrection on our Nation's Capital, and we allow two years to pass without bringing him to justice, I must question the value of my 34 years of service in the United States Army. That isn't right.

Serious question, do you think citizens in the most armed country in the world would hold an unarmed insurrection?!?

If you served 34 years and remember your oath of office, especially the part about supporting and defending the Constitution, then you may want to refresh yourself on the reason this is included in it...

A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Hint: The importance of the second amendment is the ability to rebel against a tyrannical government. It also gives citizens the right to protect themselves, without restrictions from the government. The Second Amendment also allows us to protect ourselves from foreign and domestic attacks, if the government won't.

A refresher in American Civics may be in order...

 

[benenglish]

Serious question, do you think citizens in the most armed country in the world would hold an unarmed insurrection?!?

I got into an enlightening (to me) discussion on this topic over on Quora. It seems "insurrection" isn't conveniently defined in the law. About the only requirement I could find was that the uprising had to be such a problem that the civil authorities couldn't handle it and the military would have to be called in.

The person arguing with me felt that any armed rebellion qualified as an insurrection.

That brought me up short. The protestors were armed? I hadn't heard that. With a little digging I confirmed that one person (1!) had been arrested for carrying a concealed firearm.

I felt that if an insurrection happened, the amount of gunfire would be pretty obvious. There would be machine guns coming out of safes and patriots would be dying in the middle of mounds of their own brass. Anything short of that didn't, to me, qualify as an insurrection.

To the other guy, the presence of a single firearm meant the crowd, all of it, collectively, was armed and, therefore, Jan 6 was an insurrection. Obviously.

That conversation gave me some real insight into the mindset of people who characterize the possession of a brick of .22s as "an ammunition hoard of hundreds of rounds" immediately before they fall on the nearest fainting couch.

 

[Havok1]

I got into an enlightening (to me) discussion on this topic over on Quora. It seems "insurrection" isn't conveniently defined in the law. About the only requirement I could find was that the uprising had to be such a problem that the civil authorities couldn't handle it and the military would have to be called in.

The person arguing with me felt that any armed rebellion qualified as an insurrection.

That brought me up short. The protestors were armed? I hadn't heard that. With a little digging I confirmed that one person (1!) had been arrested for carrying a concealed firearm.

I felt that if an insurrection happened, the amount of gunfire would be pretty obvious. There would be machine guns coming out of safes and patriots would be dying in the middle of mounds of their own brass. Anything short of that didn't, to me, qualify as an insurrection.

To the other guy, the presence of a single firearm meant the crowd, all of it, collectively, was armed and, therefore, Jan 6 was an insurrection. Obviously.

That conversation gave me some real insight into the mindset of people who characterize the possession of a brick of .22s as "an ammunition hoard of hundreds of rounds" immediately before they fall on the nearest fainting couch.

And in this case, it wasnt even that civil authorities couldn’t handle it. They just didn’t, and some were even complicit.

The people like this who argue with you on stuff like that have decided it was an insurrection regardless of the facts. All that matters to them is that years from now, younger people won’t know what actually happened. They’ll just remember that trump caused an insurrection, even though he really didn’t.

 

[General Zod]

And in this case, it wasnt even that civil authorities couldn’t handle it. They just didn’t, and some were even complicit.

The people like this who argue with you on stuff like that have decided it was an insurrection regardless of the facts. All that matters to them is that years from now, younger people won’t know what actually happened. They’ll just remember that trump caused an insurrection, even though he really didn’t.

That's the goal right there. To paint anyone who doesn't toe the liberal party line as an insurrectionist, a terrorist, a racist and a fascist. You know, all of the things they support when it's liberals doing it.

 

[DaBull]

I spent 32 years in the Air Force. I used to brag about how it was apolitical. Towards the end, I was seeing some astonishing things, like people teaching critical race theory to captive military audiences, but publicly denying it to Senators, because they were staying away from using certain terms like white privilege or not outright accusing white males of being racist supporters of the patriarchy. I heard a Lt Col, while attending an official department meeting, publicly bad mouth the current President and Sec Def as racist and xenophobic, and the first Col in his chain of command was present and did nothing to stop him. A top rated officer candidate got upset with me for saying that some bad guys like Hitler and Bin Laden just need to be killed. He said killing was wrong and had no response for me when asked if he would be able to follow an order that resulted in the death of a Hitler or Bin Laden.

I loved most of my time in the military, but make no mistake, the military is a reflection of society, and today's military is nothing like the military of 20-30 years ago.

 

[Tnhawk]

I loved most of my time in the military, but make no mistake, the military is a reflection of society, and today's military is nothing like the military of 20-30 years ago.

After leaving Vietnam at my next duty station, I started seeing a change take place in the military. At the end of my enlistment contract I knew it was time to leave active duty. Under Carter's Presidency the liberal influence of society made it necessary to leave the Reserves as well.

 

[DougC]

Most Americans of all ages are too fûcking fat and exceed the height/weight maximums.

Yes, you are right on weight problem. The other two big reasons for lack of folks qualified for military service are drugs and criminal history.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Yes, you are right on weight problem. The other two big reasons for lack of folks qualified for military service are drugs and criminal history.

You’d be surprised at how easy drugs and/or criminal history is to waiver. But if you are outside the height/weight standards on either min or max side, that’s not.

 

[Big Green]

I got into an enlightening (to me) discussion on this topic over on Quora. It seems "insurrection" isn't conveniently defined in the law. About the only requirement I could find was that the uprising had to be such a problem that the civil authorities couldn't handle it and the military would have to be called in.

The person arguing with me felt that any armed rebellion qualified as an insurrection.

That brought me up short. The protestors were armed? I hadn't heard that. With a little digging I confirmed that one person (1!) had been arrested for carrying a concealed firearm.

I felt that if an insurrection happened, the amount of gunfire would be pretty obvious. There would be machine guns coming out of safes and patriots would be dying in the middle of mounds of their own brass. Anything short of that didn't, to me, qualify as an insurrection.

To the other guy, the presence of a single firearm meant the crowd, all of it, collectively, was armed and, therefore, Jan 6 was an insurrection. Obviously.

That conversation gave me some real insight into the mindset of people who characterize the possession of a brick of .22s as "an ammunition hoard of hundreds of rounds" immediately before they fall on the nearest fainting couch.

One of my cousins and his young wife live in DC. She posted on that day that she was scared for her life because of men driving around with assault weapons hanging out the windows and that it was “like a literal war zone.” She now works for some company fighting misinformation.

 

[Havok1]

One of my cousins and his young wife live in DC. She posted on that day that she was scared for her life because of men driving around with assault weapons hanging out the windows and that it was “like a literal war zone.” She now works for some company fighting misinformation.

I wish people who made claims like this were forced to go see what an actual war zone is like afterward.

 

[majormadmax]

I got into an enlightening (to me) discussion on this topic over on Quora. It seems "insurrection" isn't conveniently defined in the law. About the only requirement I could find was that the uprising had to be such a problem that the civil authorities couldn't handle it and the military would have to be called in.

The person arguing with me felt that any armed rebellion qualified as an insurrection.

That brought me up short. The protestors were armed? I hadn't heard that. With a little digging I confirmed that one person (1!) had been arrested for carrying a concealed firearm.

I felt that if an insurrection happened, the amount of gunfire would be pretty obvious. There would be machine guns coming out of safes and patriots would be dying in the middle of mounds of their own brass. Anything short of that didn't, to me, qualify as an insurrection.

To the other guy, the presence of a single firearm meant the crowd, all of it, collectively, was armed and, therefore, Jan 6 was an insurrection. Obviously.

That conversation gave me some real insight into the mindset of people who characterize the possession of a brick of .22s as "an ammunition hoard of hundreds of rounds" immediately before they fall on the nearest fainting couch.

Ben

I would more describe it as being a "flash mob."

Did Trump instigate it? Certainly. It's what politicians do.

Was it an "insurrection?" Not even close.

Is the entire thing overhyped? Again, most certainly; but also again, it's what politicians do.

Hitler wrote the playbook on how to do this!

 

[majormadmax]

One of my cousins and his young wife live in DC. She posted on that day that she was scared for her life because of men driving around with assault weapons hanging out the windows and that it was “like a literal war zone.” She now works for some company fighting misinformation.

To be honest, I've been in several war zones, and I'm still more scared to drive around Washington, D.C.!

 

[toddnjoyce]

I got into an enlightening (to me) discussion on this topic over on Quora. It seems "insurrection" isn't conveniently defined in the law.…

Neither is exonerate; bot words are fine examples of attempts to control an emotions based narrative.

 

[ST5MF]

When I see the President of the United States directing an insurrection on our Nation's Capital, and we allow two years to pass without bringing him to justice, I must question the value of my 34 years of service in the United States Army. That isn't right.

You are a melodramatic lib, and intellectually dishonest. Pound sand leftist.

 

[ST5MF]

As a former Army soldier with the 1st SFG, I regret your type having been allowed to wear the uniform. You are part and parcel of the woke stupidity of the commie liberals. The President did not direct a damn thing. Your people are the ones who are guilty. Guilty of constructing lies to fashion your destructive narrative. You won’t find many of your fellow liberals here.

TRUTH.

 

[ST5MF]

There was also the four year long coup attempt by the Democrats in Congress and within the bureaucracy, including liberal federal judges and the FBI. And let's not forget all of the members of the organization that doesn't exist (and yet could rent buses and arrange delivery of pallets of bricks) who burned cities, assaulted and murdered American citizens on the streets, and attempted to burn down multiple federal courthouses and local police stations, often with people inside.

More TRUTH.

 

[ST5MF]

It is more fun to infuriate him by taunting him and letting him know what a stooge he is.

So much TRUTH.

 

[ST5MF]

I see in this thread those claim to have been Soldiers "with" the 1 Special Forces Group... yet support the Proud Boys/Oath keepers/Neo-Nazis in that attack on our Congress. The term "with" does not make them SF-qualified. If that sort of trash was ever in the 1SFG, I never crossed their path - but then again I was not a Special Forces Officer, and would never pretend to have served in that capacity. But ironically, the treasonous former President they are supporting (AKA Cadet Bone Spur) is the same person who described Senator John McCain as a "loser" for being a POW. He also told Gen. Kelly he thought our war dead were "losers" for dying for their Country. They are now somehow ignoring the mountain of evidence presented to prove Trump's guilt as he ignored our Constitution, his oath of office, and the sanctity of our Capital in an attempt to block a legal vote. His ridiculous claims in the "Big Lie" was proven false by 61 Federal Judges. Only a fool would believe that Big Lie.

McSTAIN was a coward who gave away secrets to the VC, no wonder you look up to that evil P0S. You never served a day in your life, you are a fraud, a nobody, a loser of the highest order…pound sand.