Teaching those who have no experience with firearms and dealing with a pushy husband.

[bigtex10mm]

I taught my wife and children and grandchildren how to safely shoot. As a child I didn't have that opportunity but I did learn at Cub Scout camp. I wish that my parents would have taught me. Now in my "golden" days those I taught are all better shots than I am. My only critique of the op was the use of ear plugs from his shop, most of them I find to be inadequate and I use ear muffs for all new shooters. The loud noise of a gun shot can really frighten a new shooter and I want maximum ear protection for them. Otherwise you did great and I applaud you. Skills we learn from our parents are wonderful unless your parents have no gun skills (mine had none).

Being that we are a food production facility, the ear plugs we use are not only metal detectable, but have the highest NRR (Noise Reduction Rating) of any available. They are comparable to most ear muffs. I personally use ear muffs but some folks don't like them for various reasons. I had brought several pair of ear muffs along just in case, but the others decided to use the ear plugs. Since they were trained at the plant on how to properly install them, I had no worries about that issue.

 

[Whistler]

Two of my three daughters took to shooting, have a LTC, their own guns and shoot regularly. The middle daughter shoots when she comes here, doesn't own a gun, she's sort of neutral on the whole thing but has fun when she does shoot.
I taught all of them gun safety because I had guns around them but never told any of them to learn to shoot, when they got interested enough they asked me.
We shot cans and plastic bottles with .22s, rifle and pistol and generally had a lot of fun with lessons tossed in. We added in paper targets and a little competition as they progressed. As they got older they asked for help to improve their shooting now and again and I was thrilled to oblige.
They always ask to shoot when they come to visit, I keep a couple targets ready for them in the back of the shop.
Mrs. Whistler is convinced her father taught her all she needs to know, I make suggestions then leave it alone.
Never owned a BB gun until I had grandchildren, my first gun was a .410, H&R "Topper Jr." 490, still have it.

 

[cbp210]

I recently built and sold an AR15 to one of my employees, who has never shot guns at all. He asked me if I could show him how the gun operates and how to properly shoot it. I met him at the range I use for such training and he showed up with his wife, who also had no experience. I had brought my Ruger SR-22 pistol and my Walther PK380 with about 100 rounds of ammo for each. I spent an hour at a table going over gun safety and handling over a cup of coffee. I then spent a while talking about grip, trigger pull and sight alignment. I provided them with safety glasses to wear and had some ear plugs we use at the plant, and explained how critical it was to protect those young ears and eyes. His wife fell in love with the Ruger, but did not like the .380 due to muzzle blast and recoil. I was a little upset with him about pushing her to shoot the .380 and told him if he continued he could loose her as a shooting partner. He told her he had seen a gun he was going to buy for her and I then told him not to do it that way, but to take her and let her "try on" several different guns to find the one she liked. She agreed and he finally understood why I suggested it. I have been training people in basic firearms handling and target shooting for over 20 years and unfortunately I have seen this scenario many times where the husband tries to push the wife/girlfriend too quickly into a larger caliber....and in some cases turns them off to shooting all together. In this day and age we need to indoctrinate as many new shooters as possible to the fun that can be had at the range. He came by my house Sunday and thanked me for what I did and how I did it. His wife was with him and she gave me a hug and when she thanked me she handed me an envelope. Since I sold him the AR I didn't charge him for the session. She paid me for my time, and I hoped I hoped it was because I had created another recreational shooter.

I deal with this a lot but with kids and their parents. Sometimes I have a parent who wants their small youngster shoot a 12 gauge and I like them to start off with 20 gauge especially for first time shooters. I had one parent argue with me that his son needs to feel the power of the recoil of the shotgun, but I said that is not a good idea and needs to start off with a smaller shotgun with light loads.

 

[Axxe55]

I deal with this alot but with kids and their parents. Sometimes I have a parent who wants their small yougster shoot a 12 gauge and I like them to start off with 20 gauge especially for first time shooters. I hade one parent argue with me that his son needs to feel the power of the recoil of the shotgun but I said that is not a good idea and needs to start off with a smaller shotgun with light loads.

410'S AND 20 GUAGES ARE JUST ABOUT PERFECT FOR BEGINNERS!

 

[cbp210]

410'S AND 20 GUAGES ARE JUST ABOUT PERFECT FOR BEGINNERS!

Basic hunting and recreation yes to 410 but for beginning competitions strictly 20 gauge. I have only seen a few youngster shoot 410 in competitions but they are naturals.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I've been fortunate to have trained a wide variety of students in my brief time as an instructor. I've also been fortunate to have trained with a wide variety of instructors. I've now had about a decade to reflect on that time, my personal failings, successes, etc.

For small classes or 1:1's specifically, I've come to the conclusion that some of the most effective instructors do three things very well:

1. They listen and perceive their students and their needs very deeply.
2. They can change their approach and demeanor on a dime like an actor.
3. They can do the first two simultaneously while keeping the goal in mind.

Instructor's approach: scalpel vs hammer
Many of the problems I've seen instructors have, or been guilty of myself, have amounted to a disconnect between the instructor's approach and the student's needs. In other words, trying to fit a square peg (student's unique situation) into a round hole (preset curriculum).

For example, based on a student's behavior and mannerisms, you might want to change your own body language on the fly to put them at ease. Taking the same approach, same dialogue, same commands every single time is not necessarily going to work for everyone and might even be detrimental for some.

The instructor as a psychologist
IMO, for a small or 1:1 class, the first few minutes of class are best spent with the instructor gauging the student to figure out what approach they're going to take. Maybe it's 90% the same as others, with slight tweaks in dialogue, mannerism, etc. This means during the instructor introduction, safety briefing, etc, the instructor should be paying very close attention to their student(s). Possibly also engaging them a bit, bringing them into the conversation to help aid in this assessment.

I'm talking minutiae and making this sound more involved than it is. In reality this could be 5 minutes of being acutely aware of the students and their body language, then making slight tweaks to approach as the class progresses.

The students shouldn't have a clue that's what the instructor is doing, it should just seem like a natural conversation. I'm overemphasizing this because a lot of instructors simply don't even bother to listen and consider their audience.

Husbands & wives as classmates
This is compounded by having say a husband and wife in the same class, so a 1:2. Now you not only need to be acutely aware of both but, the dynamics between both.

For the husband, you probably want to avoid embarrassing him in front of his wife. You'll need to figure out how to address certain issues and take the ego factor into account, while also not letting it become detrimental to his wife.

For the wife, you'll want to avoid setting up situations where she might feel like she's not living up to her husband's expectations. You'll also want to avoid situations where she might feel like she's going to draw criticism from her husband. Think about how serious the instructor approaches a drill or block of instruction and the atmosphere that creates. The goal is for learning to have occurred. Sometimes being too serious can be detrimental to that.

In situations like that, it might change what drills you do and how to avoid setting up situations where you are posing a serious competition between the husband and wife. In a few cases, I've found a good ice-breaker to help round off those edges is humor. Not only might I joke with them a bit and put on a more laid back demeanor but, if they're receptive, maybe have a friendly competition such that everyone can laugh at their own mistakes. Maybe this is with ridiculous targets, goofy prizes they can earn, etc.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

A lot of good stuff in this thread. Wanted to pull out some highlights to emphasize, none of what I said is anything new or invented. Many in this thread have, by their words, already displayed some of those principles in approaching instruction in a thoughtful manner tailored to the student. Good on you all!

I recently built and sold an AR15 to one of my employees, who has never shot guns at all.
He asked me if I could show him how the gun operates and how to properly shoot it.
I met him at the range I use for such training and he showed up with his wife, who also had no experience...
I spent an hour at a table going over gun safety and handling over a cup of coffee...
He came by my house Sunday and thanked me for what I did and how I did it.
His wife was with him and she gave me a hug and when she thanked me she handed me an envelope...

Masterful yet simple. Probably won't find that in an instruction manual anywhere.

And I almost always start new shooters with .22lr. It lets them see they can do it in a quiet, non intimidating platform.
Then progress from there as their confidence level goes up. But only as far as their confidence level.

When my wife showed an interest in shooting, I signed her for an introductory class. She insisted I take the class too.
It went pretty well, but she has yet to pick up another firearm. That’s OK because she tried, but didn’t care for it.

Great point. It's not going to work out for everyone, and doesn't help to try and force it. Sometimes it's not the right time but, maybe it will be at some point in the future. Leaving the door open for people to choose for themselves is sometimes enough.

Other concerns: let a women pick her gun, even if it is nothing like what the husband wants in terms of caliber, brand, model, or color. Don't try to make her "look" like a Taran Tactical shooter in the near term, the goal is to have her KEEP SHOOTING, learning and growing. If you are lucky, she will upgrade her pink 22 to a stainless 9 in a year. Don't interrupt that process.

That last point is important. Sometimes time is what is needed.

When parents can teach their children and do it well, it is of greater significance to the child than when they are taught by anyone else.

Most parents aren't able. Some are able to compartmentalize themselves into instructor mode and do a fantastic job. Children will cherish those memories like they probably already cherish their parents.

Most people can't compartmentalize that well. When the kid makes a mistake, words like "You always mess up stuff like this" or "You weren't listening. I already told you. You never listen." Most parents treat their kids during instruction as if they were their kids, letting years of emotional baggage pollute what should be a simple, straightforward lesson plan.

During a lesson, successful parents or teachers treat the kids as pupils, not offspring. That's a whole different baseline of expected behaviors.

There are certain situations where a disinterested third party is needed/mandatory to provide effective instruction.

Both Glenn and Ben make great points. Everyone is different. Some can detach themselves and teach. Others can't. Ben's point about compartmentalization is a great way to summarize it. Many can't. For those that can, consider yourselves fortunate.

A lot of it just depends on how well the learners are willing to take instruction from the instructor, and how self-aware the instructor is about where the line between teaching and lecturing lies.

Well put. It's the difference between talking with someone and talking at them.

With my wife I just keep an eye on safety and grip otherwise I just let her shoot and tell her where she’s hitting. If she’s hitting the plate, that’s all that matters for now. If she asks about something I’ll answer otherwise I just try to provide encouragement. When we get to go more often she wants to try some basic drills and stuff it stays relaxed and fun. And like you said, we always end the trip on something fun or at least a good hit.

Being that we are a food production facility, the ear plugs we use are not only metal detectable, but have the highest NRR (Noise Reduction Rating) of any available. They are comparable to most ear muffs. I personally use ear muffs but some folks don't like them for various reasons. I had brought several pair of ear muffs along just in case, but the others decided to use the ear plugs. Since they were trained at the plant on how to properly install them, I had no worries about that issue.

Another masterful tactic. Using something known to the student (in this case, earplugs they're familiar with) to help reduce unnecessary tension from the situation.

 

[Axxe55]

IT'S LIKE INTRODUCING ANYONE NEW TO A DIFFERENT HOBBYNOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO WANT TO GO ANY FURTHERYHEY MAY NOT EVEN ENJOY IT FOR WHATEVER REASONS!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I took a diving class 40 odd years ago. They had a strict policy for their classes that couples, buddies, etc. could not be dive buddies for class, especially husbands and wives. I was taking the class with my brother, so we could not be partners, either.

This was really terrific. Every dive lesson, you had a different partner. There was no bickering, disagreements, or fights. Both members of the couple got better instruction because they were not focused on each other's issues, but their own.

I have seen this done in some gun glasses. In my opinion, separating the couples was really beneficial to everyone involved, at least at the early stages of learning.

 

[Skeetur]

A lot of good stuff in this thread. Wanted to pull out some highlights to emphasize, none of what I said is anything new or invented. Many in this thread have, by their words, already displayed some of those principles in approaching instruction in a thoughtful manner tailored to the student. Good on you all!


Masterful yet simple. Probably won't find that in an instruction manual anywhere.




Great point. It's not going to work out for everyone, and doesn't help to try and force it. Sometimes it's not the right time but, maybe it will be at some point in the future. Leaving the door open for people to choose for themselves is sometimes enough.


That last point is important. Sometimes time is what is needed.




Both Glenn and Ben make great points. Everyone is different. Some can detach themselves and teach. Others can't. Ben's point about compartmentalization is a great way to summarize it. Many can't. For those that can, consider yourselves fortunate.


Well put. It's the difference between talking with someone and talking at them.




Another masterful tactic. Using something known to the student (in this case, earplugs they're familiar with) to help reduce unnecessary tension from the situation.

Hey boss, I can't post under classified or pm other users, but I'm interested in your estate sale post. Let me know of a way I can communicate with you. The google slide is also comment restricted. Thanks. @SIG_Fiend

 

[DocBeech]

I’d say it’s generally best for husbands and wives not to get too involved in learning to shoot together. Or husbands trying to teach their wives.

I get along pretty good with my wife. Plenty of mutual respect. But when she decided to learn to shoot handguns it went pretty poorly at first. We were able to work out the issues but it just isn’t ideal.

I have bought guns for my wife though. They are some of my favorites to shoot, lol. I think she knows exactly what I’m doing though.

In my experience this is also true for Parents/Children.

 

[leVieux]

<>

Guess I’m lucky on this. My Wife of some 45 years is a “natural” great shot.

Although I introduced her to guns her long ago, unless I practice a whole lot, she is a better pistol shot, naturally.

I never interfere when she goes for training or to “qualify”.

Target below was over a year after she had fired a handgun.

”Instructors” always tell me that they were intending to give her som pointers, until they see her targets. “Don’t mess with success!”

Her Son, my “Stepson” since he was in diapers, literally, is the same way.

He is now LEO, Instructor, and the alternate “Range Officer” for a large P.D.

see:

 

[bigtex10mm]

We are lucky here that we have a female deputy sheriff that is also a CHL instructor and offers handgun training classes to females only. My understanding she does the classes and CHL qualifications 6 times a year, weather and work permitting. I have sent her several females that just did not feel comfortable taking this training with men. I sat through one of her classes and I am impressed in how she conducts herself.

One of the biggest things I see and have read here is where the husband "buys the gun for his wife". It is also one of the biggest mistakes you can do. Take the wife with you and let her touch, fondle and choose the gun she feels comfortable with. Even if it is only a .22 rimfire and is a color that makes you want to puke, chances are that when she gets to being proficient with that gun she may want to move up in caliber, but there is also a possibility she may never do so for various reasons. Don't push it as there are a lot of styles .22ammo that can be a very good defensive round. Keep in mind any gun is better than no gun.Dont be a gun snob about it. Let it flow naturally. I did just that with my wife, though she never bought her own .22, she fell in love with mine, then a few years later went into a gunshop and bought a Walther PK-380 and qualified for her CHL with it and without any help and assistance from me. She has since claimed my Ruger SP101 DAO in .357mag and will shoot full bore .357mag loads. She however prefers shooting the .38SP+P and is scarry accurate with it. She carries either the Walther or Ruger in her fanny pack that she wears everywhere. it is a very colorful fanny pack so it does not look like a gun pack at all. We have worked quite extensively on deployment of the gun from the fanny pack and she can present the gun almost as fast as I can from my custom IWB holster.

 

[leVieux]

<>

BUT,

I got my nice Scandium J-frame by buying it for my Wife !

She refused to carry it. . . . .

Sigh !

Thinking of buying her a nice 20GA doublegun, with dove season upon us again. . . . . . . .

leVieux

<>

 

[benenglish]

She refused to carry it. . . . .

I helped out a couple once. They had bought one of those tiny, plastic, flyweight .380s and were shooting some premium self-defense loads through it. The woman hated the pistol due to the snappy recoil. (Hell, I find them distinctly unpleasant to shoot!) She couldn't figure out how a pistol so tiny could hurt so much. She was petrified of my .45 thinking anything with bullets so large would surely have enough recoil to break her hand.

I persuaded her to try one shot with the .45. It was a full-size, all-steel EAA and, of course, a complete pussycat to shoot. After the one shot, she wanted a magazine full.

This was immediately followed by a discussion of how perceived recoil is a result of many things, not just the size of the cartridge but also the weight of the pistol. After she understood just a little more about the issues, she was very peeved at her husband and started asking him whether it was possible to return the .380.

 

[Steve In Texas]

I try to train people to shoot with a heavy barreled .22. Once they catch on that those holes in the target are reasonably close to where they wanted the it is much easier to move the skill up the energy scale.

Recoil flinching can haunt for ages. All to many 380s in my experience are just unpleasant to shoot. Hits count in training so much that starting with a system that rewards the hitting the target with positive feedback is absolutely essential.

 

[leVieux]

When my wife showed an interest in shooting, I signed her for an introductory class. She insisted I take the class too. It went pretty well, but she has yet to pick up another firearm. That’s OK because she tried, but didn’t care for it.

My DiL from a hunting family was very

I helped out a couple once. They had bought one of those tiny, plastic, flyweight .380s and were shooting some premium self-defense loads through it. The woman hated the pistol due to the snappy recoil. (Hell, I find them distinctly unpleasant to shoot!) She couldn't figure out how a pistol so tiny could hurt so much. She was petrified of my .45 thinking anything with bullets so large would surely have enough recoil to break her hand.

I persuaded her to try one shot with the .45. It was a full-size, all-steel EAA and, of course, a complete pussycat to shoot. After the one shot, she wanted a magazine full.

This was immediately followed by a discussion of how perceived recoil is a result of many things, not just the size of the cartridge but also the weight of the pistol. After she understood just a little more about the issues, she was very peeved at her husband and started asking him whether it was possible to return the .380.

<>

My Wife does well w/ everything from P3AT to Kimber UCDP .45; & especially likes the Taurus M-P PT145.

But, not the .38 J-frames of any weight, nor PPKS. Oldest Daughter loves her steel J-frame.

<>

 

[leVieux]

I try to train people to shoot with a heavy barreled .22. Once they catch on that those holes in the target are reasonably close to where they wanted the it is much easier to move the skill up the energy scale.

Recoil flinching can haunt for ages. All to many 380s in my experience are just unpleasant to shoot. Hits count in training so much that starting with a system that rewards the hitting the target with positive feedback is absolutely essential.

<>

So true. . . . . .

<>

 

[leVieux]

When my wife showed an interest in shooting, I signed her for an introductory class. She insisted I take the class too. It went pretty well, but she has yet to pick up another firearm. That’s OK because she tried, but didn’t care for it.

My DiL from a hunting family, was very anti-gun, so my Son trained his kids on defense. Then they went off to colleges & the home-invasion reports kept drawing nearer their home. She finally asked for a gun & training.

 

[Mycin]

The "Why?" of it is more complex than I'm willing to go into for both reasons of time and because I don't know the absolute answer. I know I've observed it more than once.

Research has been done on stability when standing and women seem to do better, on average. In my context, as (usually) a pistol shooter, that means a more stable base from which to shoot. On average, the center of gravity of women's bodies is literally lower than those of men. That's the only real-world physical reason that comes to mind at the moment. Keep in mind that I specified that women succeed in competition like Olympic air pistol where there's not as much a need for physical strength to deal with recoil. That's important.

In practical terms, women don't typically adopt a male attitude that they're the spiritual successors to John Wayne and they already know what they're doing. Sometimes women pull the helpless female act but that's easy to get past. Once past it, female students are often much more attentive because they're now in a world they haven't previously thought of as their birthright. They know they need to listen if they're going to succeed. As simple as that last sentence sounds, my experience is that women do a better job of it than men when it comes to firearms instruction.

I suppose there's more to this and I'll ponder it. Good question. Thanks.

Most couples I've trained (handguns), the woman shoots better than her male partner. Not always, but way more than half.

In addition to the above points, with which I strongly agree, I have a theory on another possible factor:

As we know, poor trigger control is the bane of accuracy. Also, women generally have less grip strength than men. My theory is that a woman with imperfect trigger technique doesn't push the barrel as far off target as a man would due to their lower grip strength.