Sun Tzu is fighting the 2nd amendment battle from the grave

[monkeyapeman]

Discuss on....

Military weapons are the means used by the Sage to punish violence and cruelty, to give peace to troublous times, to remove difficulties and dangers, and to succor those who are in peril. Every animal with blood in its veins and horns on its head will fight when it is attacked. How much more so will man, who carries in his breast the faculties of love and hatred, joy and anger! When he is pleased, a feeling of affection springs up within him; when angry, his poisoned sting is brought into play. That is the natural law which governs his being…. What then shall be said of those scholars of our time, blind to all great issues, and without any appreciation of relative values, who can only bark out their stale formulas about "virtue" and "civilization," condemning the use of military weapons? They will surely bring our country to impotence and dishonor and the loss of her rightful heritage; or, at the very least, they will bring about invasion and rebellion, sacrifice of territory and general enfeeblement. Yet they obstinately refuse to modify the position they have taken up. The truth is that, just as in the family the teacher must not spare the rod, and punishments cannot be dispensed with in the State, so military chastisement can never be allowed to fall into abeyance in the Empire. All one can say is that this power will be exercised wisely by some, foolishly by others, and that among those who bear arms some will be loyal and others rebellious.

This is important

 

[Clockwork]

Sun Tzu was alive around roughly 500 B.C. so suggesting that Sun Tzu was speaking of guns is kind of... well, you see what I'm getting at. It's the same kind of an arguement used by the anti-2A movement who say "guns during the time that the our Constitution was penned aren't the same as the guns we have today".

Most likely Sun Tzu is speaking of swords -- one of the few weapons in history a soldier has made use of that's only intended purpose is combat. At least a gun can be used for hunting to put food on a table. A melee weapon such as a sword with no practical purpose that a hammer or an axe would have is not the same thing. It is the weapon of a soldier in Sun Tzu's time along with spears and bows.

Of course I'm all for the 2A movement, but can we at least agree to not pull random snippets out of our collective ass?

 

[Texas1911]

Of course I'm all for the 2A movement, but can we at least agree to not pull random snippets out of our collective ass?

That's simply being blinded by depth. If you read the actual text he is simply stating that a disarmed populace is subjugated via their own governance or by invasion. It is a dishonored people because they cannot provide a primal defense to both threats. It's a mindset that endured in the Constitution itself ... that an armed people can protect themselves from any threat, foreign or domestic. The simple fact that he was discussing swords, polearms, bows, etc. is irrelevant.

We possess guns to protect our own herd, not for hunting or sporting usage. That is the spirit of the 2nd Amendment and that is the ideology surrounding Sun Tzu's writing.

Times and technology may change ... but humans remain the same. History has proven that.

 

[Clockwork]

It's the same argument being used back and forth all the time. I know this.

Convenient to use Sun Tzu's words to suit our own agenda, though.

 

[Texas1911]

It's the same argument being used back and forth all the time. I know this.

Convenient to use Sun Tzu's words to suit our own agenda, though.

Sun Tzu has far, far too much logical thought to be used against a liberal. You'd have to drag up some "progressive" philosophical dreamer type to really make an impact. So in that regard, it has absolutely no real bearing on the argument between our two collectives. After all ... he'd just be discredited as being some old Chinese guy, while they cut the argument short to go practice some thousand year old physical routine that is so wonderful and all the while expounding the glorious benefits of green tea.

 

[Texan2]

Convenient to use Sun Tzu's words to suit our own agenda, though.

If the shoe fits...

How else could one use his words???

 

[Clockwork]

Pssh. Anti-oxidants. Hel-loooooooo....

 

[Clockwork]

If the shoe fits...

How else could one use his words???

I'm just saying we already use this argument for the 2A movement. Why quote Sun Tzu for it now?

 

[Texas1911]

Pssh. Anti-oxidants. Hel-loooooooo....

Yeah ... well motor oil has TONS of antioxidants, perhaps I could start a vegan raw food ultra-organic superfood out of Mobil 1.

 

[Texas1911]

I'm just saying we already use this argument for the 2A movement. Why quote Sun Tzu for it now?

Because it makes us look cultured and smart n shit.

 

[Texan2]

I'm just saying we already use this argument for the 2A movement. Why quote Sun Tzu for it now?

Because it shows that our values are not new and have been preached for many millenia.

 

[Clockwork]

Because it makes us look cultured and smart n shit.

Word. We got culture 'n shit. We read stuff.

 

[Texas1911]

Word. We got culture 'n shit. We read stuff.

I see what you did there.

 

[frijolero817]

Clockwork, I don't understand you're whole agenda man. I come to this board and don't post much anymore because I'm sitting here reading your condescending arguments and just wish a comet would fall out of the sky and smash your computer because you would argue with a no parking sign if you could. A new member makes an observation, and you come across as the all knowing smug guy. At the same time you get mad at Skeeter and West Texas for talking down about progressive ideas and say they are limited. You're a huge part of the reason why I don't like this board as much anymore. I'm sure you'll come up with something great to say, but most will not care.

 

[West Texas]

Hmmmm....this should be interesting...

 

[SWJewellTN]

Clockwork, I don't understand you're whole agenda man. I come to this board and don't post much anymore because I'm sitting here reading your condescending arguments and just wish a comet would fall out of the sky and smash your computer because you would argue with a no parking sign if you could. A new member makes an observation, and you come across as the all knowing smug guy. At the same time you get mad at Skeeter and West Texas for talking down about progressive ideas and say they are limited. You're a huge part of the reason why I don't like this board as much anymore. I'm sure you'll come up with something great to say, but most will not care.

I understand exactly where you're coming from. But on the other hand it's kind of comical to read.

 

[Stumpy]

Because it makes us look cultured and smart n shit.

signature material right there

Hmmmm....this should be interesting...

aw hell, only a matter of time till this thread gets locked. enjoy it while it lasts folks!

 

[stainone]

Eggiwegs! I would like... to smash them!
Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well

 

[Clockwork]

Clockwork, I don't understand you're whole agenda man. I come to this board and don't post much anymore because I'm sitting here reading your condescending arguments and just wish a comet would fall out of the sky and smash your computer because you would argue with a no parking sign if you could. A new member makes an observation, and you come across as the all knowing smug guy. At the same time you get mad at Skeeter and West Texas for talking down about progressive ideas and say they are limited. You're a huge part of the reason why I don't like this board as much anymore. I'm sure you'll come up with something great to say, but most will not care.

Ouch. Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Truth be told I like Skeeter and West Texas a lot. I don't get upset about someone talking down progressive ideas, I do it myself, I just keep things interesting. *shrug*

Maybe you're just taking me too seriously? I'm a lot more laid back than you might believe... Sorry if I've busted up your experience on the forums at all, that's never my intent.

 

[monkeyapeman]

Because it makes us look cultured and smart n shit.

Exactly!

I just thought you gun freaks may get a kick out of reading about how Sun Tzu also thinks Pelosi is a terrorist.