Powder identification

[hornetguy]

Out of curiosity, does anyone recognize this powder?
The story is.... a bunch of years ago, someone gave me a couple of boxes of reloads.... they said they had bought them in "a gun shop" as commercial reloads.
I kept them, and recently looked at the box of .357's.... they were the worst looking loads I'd ever seen.... bullet seating depths all over the place, some crimped in front of the front band, some crimped short of the crimp groove, etc....
I decided to pull the bullets and salvage the primed cases.
I weighed each charge out of the inertia puller, and found ranges of 4.6 gr up to 5.9 gr.... most were 5.2 to 5.7 gr.
I don't recognize the powder... it's a light gray, finely grained ball powder.... this is a curiosity thing, nothing else. I'm going to dispose of the powder and reload the primed cases.

It looks like the "loader" sized the cases, but didn't flare the case mouths, as all the bullets I pulled mic'd at .356 to .3565... this is a 150 gr cast swc, so I'm sure it didn't start out life that diameter. I imagine he just jammed the bullets in the cases and squashed them down in there, shaving off lead and "resizing" them with the cases.
Three of the cases had a little wrinkle just below the base of the bullet, as if they were bulged during the seating/swaging process.

I compared it to the Bullseye that I have, and it is not the same powder. The charges in my Lyman book would indicate a 5.5 gr charge would be mid-range for a 150 gr bullet...

Like I said, just curiosity... I also included a pic of a few of the loads.... scary stuff....

 

[Eastexasrick]

231 Winchester ball. The load was 4.9 to 5.4 with a 158 Speer bullet. Speer #10 manual.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Out of curiosity, does anyone recognize this powder?
The story is.... a bunch of years ago, someone gave me a couple of boxes of reloads.... they said they had bought them in "a gun shop" as commercial reloads.
I kept them, and recently looked at the box of .357's.... they were the worst looking loads I'd ever seen.... bullet seating depths all over the place, some crimped in front of the front band, some crimped short of the crimp groove, etc....
I decided to pull the bullets and salvage the primed cases.
I weighed each charge out of the inertia puller, and found ranges of 4.6 gr up to 5.9 gr.... most were 5.2 to 5.7 gr.
I don't recognize the powder... it's a light gray, finely grained ball powder.... this is a curiosity thing, nothing else. I'm going to dispose of the powder and reload the primed cases.

It looks like the "loader" sized the cases, but didn't flare the case mouths, as all the bullets I pulled mic'd at .356 to .3565... this is a 150 gr cast swc, so I'm sure it didn't start out life that diameter. I imagine he just jammed the bullets in the cases and squashed them down in there, shaving off lead and "resizing" them with the cases.
Three of the cases had a little wrinkle just below the base of the bullet, as if they were bulged during the seating/swaging process.

I compared it to the Bullseye that I have, and it is not the same powder. The charges in my Lyman book would indicate a 5.5 gr charge would be mid-range for a 150 gr bullet...

Like I said, just curiosity... I also included a pic of a few of the loads.... scary stuff....

View attachment 377801

View attachment 377802

Its been a long time but it sure looks like Win231 Winchester ball.
The load was 4.9 to 5.4 with a 158 Speer bullet. Speer #10 manual with Ball 231

That is some of the shittiest reloading I have ever seen.
My wife has come home the some almost as bad from garage sales. She keeps her eye out for the harder to find stuff like the 32-20, 41 mag, and such. I pull the bullets for melting, salvage the usable cases, and dump the powder in the lake.

 

[hornetguy]

I don't know why I didn't even think about 231.... I've got a bunch of that.

This little dab of powder will either get burned out on the driveway, or scattered in the flower bed...
All but one of the cases appear to be salvageable. I ran them all through the steel sizer die last night, and they look almost normal... the mangled bullets will be melted down this weekend when I fire up the pot to do some more casting...

That is some of the shittiest reloading I have ever seen

I agree.... I was shocked when I first looked at it. My first thought was "how drunk would you have to be....."

 

[zackmars]

Yeah, fertilizer. Or, it's premium grade remhornchester finger remover 220

Depends on how brave you want to be

 

[hornetguy]

Yes... this kind of sloppy reloading can do that.
Don't ask me how I know... that's a different story....

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Looks like fertilizer.

 

[Ozzman]

Geez, that looks like either HS-6 or W231. Seeing that HS-6 has a slightly higher load rating (8 gr+) than what you are finding, I am leaning more toward the consensus of being W231 based on the photos you showed.

IMO, don't throw it out. With powder prices as high as they are, use the minimum load of 4.6 grains and reload it back into the case.
Make 5 of them and check the performance on paper.

Work the load up to where it needs to be with that powder. Kills a Saturday, but worth it.

 

[hornetguy]

I have about 4 or 5 1# jugs of 231... it's not like I'm short of it. This only works out to just over 1/2 oz of powder....

But I do like the idea of re-using it..... just because....

don't try this at home, kids....

 

[hornetguy]

Update.... it has become fertilizer. I compared my W231 and my Bullseye to that powder, and neither one is close.
I've never seen Herco, or a bunch of other powders, but this is a very fine grained round (not flattened) ball powder... both 231 and Bullseye are flattened to some degree...
The primed brass has been charged with some Blue Dot and 125gr plated bullets...and the powder is now in the dirt around my rose bush.,

this is the W231 next to it....

and this is the Bullseye next to it...

 

[red442joe]

Yeah, that looks too fine....scary.
Could be anything? Happy roses!

Joe

 

[Eastexasrick]

Yeah, that looks too fine....scary.
Could be anything? Happy roses!

Joe

Yup, considering the quality of the loads, could be old recycled .22 rimfire. It appears the loader did jot have a clue, or could even rent a clue.

 

[Axxe55]

WITHOUT KNOWING EXACLY WHAT THE POWDER IS RECYCLING IS DANGEROUS AS WELL AS STUPID!

 

[Ozzman]

Is there danger? meh, yea a little; some but if you know what you are doing it is not stupid...

I have done this a handful of times before.
My statements stem from success with re-using big batches of old/tarnished surplus ammo powder and even powder from old gun show reloads. Small batches (<100 pistol or <50 rifle) are not worth the time.

The key is to be mindful when weighing what is coming out of the old case and making sure it looks the same as the rest of the batch.
Know and stick to the parent case, weigh the projectiles, and average the powder weight distributions.

What "I" would have done, was use this as an opportunity to work up a load starting from the lowest measurement.
If you are a seasoned reloader, it's not hard to do especially if you start at the bottom.

Reload like 5 or 10 of the lowest charge.
10 more slightly higher, and 10 more even higher and hit the range.

Shoot the lowest powder group first and confirm POI; and if you can Chrono the load. If it is weak, then you will know right away. Remember, pressure is everything and long as you are not showing signs of excessive pressure, you are hitting (close to) POA, and velocities are within the ballpark range, you will never go wrong.

Win-win IMO. You get to hit the range with purpose, you get reusable projectiles that can be reloaded later (or melted back down), and you get working loads to add to the stash.

 

[hornetguy]

WITHOUT KNOWING EXACLY WHAT THE POWDER IS RECYCLING IS DANGEROUS AS WELL AS STUPID!

Well, thanks for that....
Since I've been reloading since 1970, I think I've figured out what can be dangerous and what is likely not.
For the most part, I know my limitations.... (thanks, Harry) and will not go beyond them.
Which is why this 1/2 oz of powder is now fertilizer.
Had it been a BUNCH of powder, I might have tried to work up a load.... I think that there are not many (if any) powders that will blow up a .357 with a 5 gr charge.
Perhaps 5 gr of a slow burning powder, that could create a detonation, but other than that, I don't think any of the pistol powders would be "bomb makers" at 5 gr...

 

[benenglish]

I agree.... I was shocked when I first looked at it. My first thought was "how drunk would you have to be....."

I've seen worse at a gun shop, on the counter, in loading trays, being sold for immediate use in their rental guns. It was an indoor range in South Houston where I shot for my CCW back in the mid-1990s. I wish I could remember the name.

The ammo was 9mm with crushed case mouths, cases split all the way down to the web, and other atrocities put up in filthy, obviously many-times-loaded range pickup brass. The gun shop personnel, with a straight face, told customers that their rental Glocks were perfectly reliable with any ammo.

SMDH.

 

[Axxe55]

Well, thanks for that....
Since I've been reloading since 1970, I think I've figured out what can be dangerous and what is likely not.
For the most part, I know my limitations.... (thanks, Harry) and will not go beyond them.
Which is why this 1/2 oz of powder is now fertilizer.
Had it been a BUNCH of powder, I might have tried to work up a load.... I think that there are not many (if any) powders that will blow up a .357 with a 5 gr charge.
Perhaps 5 gr of a slow burning powder, that could create a detonation, but other than that, I don't think any of the pistol powders would be "bomb makers" at 5 gr...

NOT EVERYON RELOADING THAT MIGHT READ THIS THREAD HAS BEEN RELOADING FOR THE LAST FIFTY YEARS OR MORE I HAVE BEEN RELOADING CLOSE TO THIRTY YEARS NOW BUT THERE ARE THINGS CONCERNINRELODING THAT I MIGHT DO BUT WOULD NEVER SUGGEST OR RECOMMEND A NOOB TO RELOADING TO TRY!

 

[hornetguy]

LOL..... I think I DID put that in one of my posts....

"Don't try this at home, kids!"

I agree with your thinking, though.

 

[zackmars]

If you don't look like Venom Snake from MGSV, what kind of reloader are you?

Be a man, push the limits.

 

[contender buff]

Looks like fertilizer to me ,the flowers will enjoy it.