Police Investigating Self-Defense in Murder Case

[OFFascist]

Police Investigating Self-Defense in Murder Case | Corpus Christi, TX | KZTV10.com |

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Sounds like it should be self defense unless there is some evidence that is being withheld.

IMO it seems like the police are going about this backwards, I thought it was innocent until proven guilty. If this is leaning strongly towards self defense then it was wrong to jail this guy and slap him with a [FONT=arial, sans-serif]$250k bond. Shouldn't he remain free until there is evidence that it was murder, instead of being jailed until they find evidence that it was self defense.[/FONT]

 

[txinvestigator]

No offense meant; but you do not understand the self defense laws and how they apply. Self defense, or more accurately, the justification for deadly force is a defense to prosecution. Shooting someone is illegal. If the person dies it is murder. Murder is illegal.

If a person was justified under chapter 9 of the penal code, then the person has a defense to prosecution, not a defense from prosecution. A defense to prosecution means you have a defense you can offer in court why you should not be found guilty

The police only need to probable cause to believe an offense was committed. The state must prove the person committed the unlawful act "beyond a reasonable doubt". The police nor the state are required to disprove any allegation of self defense. The defense must present evidence supporting the defense.

The burden of proof is on the state to prove the person

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual

penal code 19.02

The police have probable cause to believe that happened.

The burden of proof is on the defendant to establish any defense.

Regarding your question about innocent until proven guilty; the guy has not been found guilty. Guilt is not needed to have probable cause for an arrest. Everyone charged with a crime is arrested before they are found guilty. The person is presumed innocent in court.

The police have evidence it was murder. Even if the defendant was justified it was still murder. If it is justified he is just not criminally responsible.

 

[GPtwins]

+1 txi. nicely stated.

 

[2sam22]

The difference between probable cause and a conviction is a chasm sometimes, but all you need is probable cause to charge. After charging the investigation continues, more witnesses come forward, things might change.

 

[txinvestigator]

The difference between probable cause and a conviction is a chasm sometimes, but all you need is probable cause to charge. After charging the investigation continues, more witnesses come forward, things might change.

This is not an issue of PC and reasonable doubt, but of how a defense to prosecution works.

 

[subseashooter]

+1 Thanks!

 

[OFFascist]

Thanks for clearing up the defense to prosecution bit.

How about the bond amount? Is $250k considered "reasonable" for a self defense shooting? At 10% for a bond that is still $25k.

 

[txinvestigator]

Thanks for clearing up the defense to prosecution bit.

How about the bond amount? Is $250k considered "reasonable" for a self defense shooting? At 10% for a bond that is still $25k.

Ehh, bond is set by many factors

Holy cow, deja vu.

 

[TexasRedneck]

At this point, the guy in the jail cell is saying self defense. The legal system only knows that his actions caused the death of another human being.....bail doesn't care about the defense, just the charges involved.

 

[Wiked]

So if the husband and the wife are having a fist fight outside, and he ran out to help and at that point feels he and or the woman are in danger he would be guilty of murder if he had a CHL and acted on self defense? This is a hypothetical question for my own knowledge.

 

[AngeliaH]

So if the husband and the wife are having a fist fight outside, and he ran out to help and at that point feels he and or the woman are in danger he would be guilty of murder if he had a CHL and acted on self defense? This is a hypothetical question for my own knowledge.

Not necesarily guilty.....but he may be charged.

(Am I right TI?)

Sent from nunya.

 

[TexasRedneck]

So if the husband and the wife are having a fist fight outside, and he ran out to help and at that point feels he and or the woman are in danger he would be guilty of murder if he had a CHL and acted on self defense? This is a hypothetical question for my own knowledge.

That's gonna be a decision for the DA and/or Grand Jury (whether to charge him and/or find cause to hold for trial), then up to a jury to decide.

 

[Wiked]

Wow, so then is he supposed to stand by and let it happen? I mean I understand why it would have to go before a jury, it just sucks that for defending some one you would have to leave your life in the hands of a jury.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Wow, so then is he supposed to stand by and let it happen? I mean I understand why it would have to go before a jury, it just sucks that for defending some one you would have to leave your life in the hands of a jury.

No, sir - but you REALLY need to study the Judicial System. That's NOT a shot at you - but if you're going to use a firearm, you'd danged well better UNDERSTAND just what the consequences can be!! This ain't a video game, folks - and when the day comes that you pull a trigger, you'd best KNOW what you're up against!!!!!

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Steady red. Simply put you may beat the rap but you dont always beat the ride

 

[txinvestigator]

So if the husband and the wife are having a fist fight outside, and he ran out to help and at that point feels he and or the woman are in danger he would be guilty of murder if he had a CHL and acted on self defense? This is a hypothetical question for my own knowledge.

Chapter 9 of the penal code does not allow deadly force when you "feel in danger".

Guilt is a matter of fact for a judge or jury.

Having a CHL has no affect on the justification to use deadly force.

You should refer back to my first response in thread.

 

[Wiked]

I understand, I typed out a simplified scenario because I am on a phone. I'm asking just to clarify what I know, not because I am going to use your posts as legal advice. Just making conversation on an interesting topic. It is not so much what the law states, because it does state you can use deadly force to prevent imminent harm, but more on how good of an attorney you have and what the jury "feels" is appropriate. Thank you for the responses though.

 

[TexasRedneck]

No, sir - it's what the law states, and the jury sits to apply the law to the case at hand. In this instance, you have someone who HAS killed someone else, but his defense is self-defense. The jury (IF it gets that far, because the DA or Grand Jury can decline to prosecute based on the evidence at hand) can find that he WAS acting in self-defense, or may decide that he did not for a variety of reasons.

That's what's critical for ALL of us to understand - you pull the trigger on a gun, you'd best be prepared for defending your actions in court. And, that's how it SHOULD be - because the person you kill deserves THEIR rights being considered, as well. We're not judge and jury - we are taking actions to curtail those of another, and as such we MUST be right in what we do.

Welcome to just a smidgen of what any cop must consider every day.

 

[Wiked]

The jury (IF it gets that far, because the DA or Grand Jury can decline to prosecute based on the evidence at hand)

That IF right there is what I was looking for, that is what i was confused about. I thought it was odd it would go straight to criminal trial. Thank you.

 

[TexasRedneck]

That IF right there is what I was looking for, that is what i was confused about. I thought it was odd it would go straight to criminal trial. Thank you.

That's why I made the earlier comment that you needed to better understand the Judicial system. Don't go based on what you read here or anywhere else - research and understand it for yourself!