P320 new drop test shows problems persist

[claymore504]

So, it seems the M17 version of the P320 has some different parts in it compared to the commercial P320.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ffers-voluntary-trigger-upgrade-p320-pistols/

 

[AustinN4]

So, it seems the M17 version of the P320 has some different parts in it compared to the commercial P320.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ffers-voluntary-trigger-upgrade-p320-pistols/

"The M17 pistol selected by the US Army as its new sidearm of choice is not covered by this offer, because it already has all of the following:
"– Reduced-mass fire control components (trigger, sear, and striker)
"– New sear housing (reduces sensation of “double click” during trigger pull)
"– Trigger disconnect (disengages the trigger bar if the slide is not fully in battery)"

I would like to get mine upgraded to that level but not sure I want it bad enough to pay for parts and shipping. Hopefully I (and everyone else) won't have to but we will all find out on Monday.

 

[claymore504]

.....and then there is this guy that claims the trigger is not the issue because it did not move when he got it to fire. If you slow down the video using Youtube settings, it clearly moves.

 

[diesel1959]

"The M17 pistol selected by the US Army as its new sidearm of choice is not covered by this offer, because it already has all of the following:
"– Reduced-mass fire control components (trigger, sear, and striker)
"– New sear housing (reduces sensation of “double click” during trigger pull)
"– Trigger disconnect (disengages the trigger bar if the slide is not fully in battery)"

I would like to get mine upgraded to that level but not sure I want it bad enough to pay for parts and shipping. Hopefully I (and everyone else) won't have to but we will all find out on Monday.

Aside from all that, I believe the M17 has a thumb safety as well. Therefore, any problems can be handled doctrinally--making it mandatory to engage the thumb safety when the weapon is hot, etc.

 

[heavygunner8]

.....and then there is this guy that claims the trigger is not the issue because it did not move when he got it to fire. If you slow down the video using Youtube settings, it clearly moves.

The test was flawed in that the trigger should've been wedged in place by placing something behind it. Only by removing that variable can you truly know if the gun can fire without the trigger moving.

 

[AustinN4]

The test was flawed in that the trigger should've been wedged in place by placing something behind it. Only by removing that variable can you truly know if the gun can fire without the trigger moving.

Agreed, but then most of these home tests are flawed in one way or another.

 

[Keyston512]

.....and then there is this guy that claims the trigger is not the issue because it did not move when he got it to fire. If you slow down the video using Youtube settings, it clearly moves.

Another issue is on the last strike he doesn't keep the 320 still. He should've secured it to a bench or vice

 

[pronstar]

The test was flawed in that the trigger should've been wedged in place by placing something behind it. Only by removing that variable can you truly know if the gun can fire without the trigger moving.

Because owners of these guns wedge things in there? I don't think I understand what you're saying here...?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[diesel1959]

Agreed, but then most of these home tests are flawed in one way or another.

No, not really. Because you won't have time to jamb something behind the trigger when/if you drop it. It seems to me that the old drop tests are insufficient, as they focus on muzzle-down (which is not really very dangerous) and muzzle horizontal. There's considerably more risk to the user/dropper and folks nearby when a pistol is dropped muzzle-up. The Omaha Outdoors video is quite enlightening in that regard. This is all because the P320's problem isn't a free-floating firing pin (like with an old 1911) but rather because certain falls can cause uncommanded movement of the P320's trigger which causes the firearm to do what it is designed to do, and that is to SHOOT!

 

[diesel1959]

The solution for Sig will be to prevent ANY uncommanded rearward movement of the trigger on its P320 pistols that don't have manual thumb safeties (such as the M17s).

 

[heavygunner8]

Related:

I found this p320 full size tacops deal for only 519$ shipped the day before Omaha Outdoors did their drop tests. Just got it from the FFL today. Very unfortunate to have to send it in to Sig so soon.

 

[Keyston512]

I guess compatibility will be a pain due to the slide and grip module needing to be modified

 

[heavygunner8]

Absolute savagery.

 

[diesel1959]

Absolute savagery.

It will savagely & absolutely hit you in the forehead with spent casings on nine out of ten rounds fired.

 

[heavygunner8]

It will savagely & absolutely hit you in the forehead with spent casings on nine out of ten rounds fired.

Maybe 1 out of every 30 rounds or so. My glock 19 seems to really like federal hst hollow points, very few of those casings have hit me in the forehead so far.

 

[Tcruse]

Clumsy has consequences.

Yes,
But no one that is around handguns would suspect that a drop event would result in a round being fired. The idea of all modern quality guns being drop safe is "assumed" by almost every consumer. Even the 1911 series 70 description always includes a "light weight" firing pin that does not have enough mass to fire a round when dropped. When people started testing Glocks by dropping from 10 stories up and throwing them as a test, everyone just assumed the Sig guns would be drop safe.
This also shows that the testing that SAMMI and the military did was very lacking and should be revised before ANY Sig is put into service and exiting models should be suspended from use until all drop issues have been eliminated.

 

[Tcruse]

SIG SAUER Stops Production of P320, ‘Voluntary Upgrade’ Details on Monday

"Meanwhile, tens of thousands of P320s will soon be rolling back into the company’s New Hampshire production facility, once the upgrade details are announced. Customers opting for the upgrade will have to send in their complete gun; both the frame and slide have to be modified.

"That’s an enormous logistical challenge. Given the number of P320’s already in the wild, SIG’s “voluntary upgrade” will be an extremely expensive endeavor — even if SIG decides to charge consumers a fee for the service. And there’s no way [yet] to estimate the amount of time customers will be without their firearms. Or the damage done to the SIG brand."

More at: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...0-voluntary-safety-upgrade-details-on-monday/

Well, we should not assume that the "upgrade" is more than a "patch" that may not totally fix the problem. The description seems that it fixes a serious problem of the gun firing out of battery and makes the trigger mass much smaller. A lot of third party testing is going to be needed before we really know if the problems are fixed.

 

[Tcruse]

Maybe 1 out of every 30 rounds or so. My glock 19 seems to really like federal hst hollow points, very few of those casings have hit me in the forehead so far.

You are exactly correct, Glock G19 Gen 4 (and G17 like I have) were not perfect when first released. The "brass" in the face was made in to a major issue by the press and Glock competitors. Mine had the problem before it had a few hundred rounds and then the issue "resolved" itself. Now, that problem just can not be duplicated with mine or with the G19 owners that I know. No one was "shot" because of the "brass in the face". We already have Sig P320 causalities.

 

[Tcruse]

There are untold numbers of pre-Series 80 1911s out there and people are going bat-crap nuts over this!?!?! Get a grip (pardon the pun!)

Yes, but all of the Series 70s now days have light weight (Titanium) firing pins and stronger firing pin return springs that also fix the issue. If you have very old Series 70 the fix is only a few dollars and the fix has been proven to be a reliable solution. With the very high number of 1911 series 70 design it there was still in an issue we would be seeing a lot more problems.

 

[Tcruse]

The solution for Sig will be to prevent ANY uncommanded rearward movement of the trigger on its P320 pistols that don't have manual thumb safeties (such as the M17s).

Yes, pay Glock for use of the trigger safety patent.