Model 12

[leVieux]

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Having been a pump gunner, mostly, for some 65 years, I know that the Winchester Mod. 12 of John M. Browning design was the ‘’BESTEST’’ pump gun ever. I’ve had two.

The folks who own Browning now own the legacy, patents are long-expired.

Browning did make & sell a supposed clone, the ‘’BPS’’, which although closely resembling a Mod. 12, certainly didn’t work anywhere near as well as the real thing. Second thought, they probably had it made in Japan, but marketed here in our USA.

Remington, which also made & sold many pump guns, mainly the 870 & clones, used to tout their ‘’dual action bars’’; but I never heard of anyone having a problem with the Mod. 12’s single bar.

I have a Mossberg which works well and has some nice features; but it certainly is not Mod. 12 ‘’smooth’’.

So I’m wondering why someone doesn’t re-introduce a REAL Mod. 12 now ?

Someone here must know more ?

leVieux

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[Moonpie]

Browning/Miruko did make a reproduction of the Model 12 Winchester about 30 years ago. They’re very nicely made guns. Expensive at the time they didn’t sell well so production was short lived.
The BPS gun is more of an Ithaca 37 clone with the bottom eject.
The original Model 12 is a wonderful gun. Fast and slick. Slam fire to boot.
The Mossberg 500 line is a clunk compared to the M12.
What they should bring back is the Model 42 Winchester.

 

[Blktoothgrn]

Possibly just too expensive to manufacture while plenty of real ones are still in circulation. Now the M42, it would be great to see more of those around.

 

[Whalercohasset]

Insane manufacturing costs. Take a close look at the machining required, it would probably be a $3,000 gun.

 

[larcat]

Yeah, the original M12 was at the very best a break even proposition for Winchester for a good while prior to '64. The 21 sxs was a loss leader for the entirety of the run afaik.

FWIW, the Browning japanese M12s basically are 1:1 reproductions, and very high quality. There's so much hand fitting involved --- M12s basically took early mass production and early 20th century hand craftsmanship and used the best parts of each --- that the Japanese ones were (and are) very expensive.

Finally, you can get really nice field models very inexpensively since they aren't particularly collectible. Early 60s examples are rock solid and can be had for well under a grand.

 

[Texasjack]

The Model 12 was simply run out of the market by the much cheaper Remington 870. The 870 is a terrific shotgun, so the lower cost wasn't the only factor. I have a Model 12, and it is a solid workhorse of a shotgun. The other cool thing about it is that it does not have the trigger reset that more modern shotguns have. If you were using it as a trench gun, for example, you could hold down the trigger and it would fire a shot with every pump.

 

[leVieux]

Yeah, the original M12 was at the very best a break even proposition for Winchester for a good while prior to '64. The 21 sxs was a loss leader for the entirety of the run afaik.

FWIW, the Browning japanese M12s basically are 1:1 reproductions, and very high quality. There's so much hand fitting involved --- M12s basically took early mass production and early 20th century hand craftsmanship and used the best parts of each --- that the Japanese ones were (and are) very expensive.

Finally, you can get really nice field models very inexpensively since they aren't particularly collectible. Early 60s examples are rock solid and can be had for well under a grand.

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Yes, I have a bunch of the 870 upgrades, but nothing shoots as well as a Mod. 12 !

Theoretically, the 870 is a better design, as were the Ithaca & Mossberg. But, just try trading someone a Mossberg for their Mod.12 !

These are still available new:

 

[mp_tx]

I should soon be into a Win 12 and its older brother, a Win 97. Not my first or last of the model—old school cool. Neither in collector shape, and will be cut down to riot/trench specs.

 

[larcat]

I should soon be into a Win 12 and its older brother, a Win 97. Not my first or last of the model—old school cool. Neither in collector shape, and will be cut down to riot/trench specs.

I keep thinking about selling mine because I don't shoot it anymore, but I kinda like having it in the safe.

 

[Texasjack]

So this thread got me to thinking about my Model 12, which I never took apart for a thorough cleaning since I bought it a couple of years ago. I removed the trigger assembly and, as expected, it was black with old oil and soot. I started tackling it, but then remembered that I bought an ultrasonic cleaner. I dropped the assembly into a ziplock bag filled with cleaner and gave it 20 minutes in the ultrasonic. Took it out and it looks like it came from the factory! A bit of oil and it's ready to go. I had some trouble taking off the barrel and I found that whatever grease someone had put in threads was completely solid. Spent some time with a toothbrush and a pick until I got that out and put some new lube in there. Some fresh Min-wax on the woodwork and some Renaissance wax on the metal and it's ready to rock and roll! It's always fun to give an old gun some TLC.

 

[larcat]

One othet thing about model 12s --- even the really old ones can be rock solid. My first was from 1928, Nickle Steel, 28", 12g. These older field models have the much slimmer corncob front end which I really like. I put about 7k shells through it without so much as a hiccup before selling it (which I shouldn't have.)

 

[single stack]

The Browning/Miroku Model 12’s and Model 42’s were offered in Grade 1 and Grade 5. The 12’s had a 28 gauge version which is unbelievably rare from Winchester.
The Browning/Miroku models do have a trigger interrupter so that they will not slam fire as the Winchesters can, making them not perfect copies.

 

[larcat]

The Browning/Miroku Model 12’s and Model 42’s were offered in Grade 1 and Grade 5. The 12’s had a 28 gauge version which is unbelievably rare from Winchester.
The Browning/Miroku models do have a trigger interrupter so that they will not slam fire as the Winchesters can, making them not perfect copies.

Didnt know there were Miroku model 42s floating around, that's really cool. Probably cheaper than the legit article too lol.

 

[equin]

All this talk about Model 12’s and not one pic! Here’s one of my 1930 16-ga. I also have a 1950’s era 12-ga but no pic yet. Fantastic shotguns! I’d also love to get a ‘97 in decent shape, but the prices on those have gone way up.

 

[Texasjack]

I forgot about this thread. After cleaning up the Model 12, I took it pheasant hunting. The old girl ran beautifully. It fired 100 rounds flawlessly. It's got a modified choke barrel, so it was just about perfect for the #6 shot required at the place. That's the one thing about an old shotgun, almost none were made with the improved cylinder needed for steel shot, limiting you to hunting non-migratory birds and game animals. I didn't need a magazine plug for pheasant, so I took the shotgun apart to get the old one out. Much to my surprise, there was a 10 inch stick that someone had shaved roughly with a pocket knife. I guess it worked, but I went ahead and got a dowel rod and made a more professional looking version, just in case. It was a good opportunity to clean out the magazine (and it was seriously dirty!). Thank heavens for YouTube videos on how to take the firing mechanism apart for thorough cleaning. There are 2 tiny parts that have to go just so to make them work. Easy, but not intuitive.

 

[@TX_1]

I have a 16 gauge Model 12 and it is old enough it shoots 2-1/2" (2-9/16" chamber) hulls. Have bought some 16 gauge hulls for it, will have to trim them down and play with crimp. Am looking forward to shooting it. Cut some old 16 gauge hulls down and removed the shot. It worked fine. (it was my grandfathers)

 

[larcat]

Wow --- that's an early one.

I had a 1928 example for a while that was 2 3/4. 12g tho.

 

[leVieux]

Insane manufacturing costs. Take a close look at the machining required, it would probably be a $3,000 gun.

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Even at $3K, I’d rather have a M12 than any Citori !

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[Eli]

I had an M12 for several years, many years ago - mixed serial front and rear with a bomb on the barrel:

Note the ejected hull mid-air:

Eli

 

[BigRed]

I've got an old Model 12 in 20ga that still gets out for tree rats now and then.

I do enjoy it.... nothing like holding a piece of John M. Browning's originals in your hands.